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Philosophy Discuss and debate the philosophies of religion, issues of faith, free will and determinism, and theories of knowledge.

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Old 02-15-2008, 06:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Morality of Water Torture
Morality of Water Torture

The present question regarding the nature and morality of torture offers us an excellent opportunity to advance the level of sophistication of our understanding of morality. We learn best when we are questioning a matter that is meaningful to us.

I was eleven years old when Germany and Japan surrendered and WWII was finally over. One searing memory of this war were the stories I read and the movies I watched during and after the war regarding the torture and general brutality that the German Gestapo inflicted upon the people they conquered. I do not know why this left such a strong impression on me but it certainly did.

Coincidentally I have been studying “Moral Imagination” by Mark Johnson. This is the same Johnson who coauthored the book “Philosophy in the Flesh” with George Lakoff. I have decided to apply the theories Johnson presents in his book as a means to illuminate this matter regarding the morality of water torture used by my country in our struggle with Islamic extremists.

Moral understanding is like any other kind of experience; when we examine a domain of experience that relates to human relationships we must focus our attention on human understanding it self. If we do so we discover that human understanding is fundamentally imaginative in character.

“Many of our most basic concepts have considerable internal structure that cannot be accounted for by the classical theory of concepts as defined by necessary and sufficient features…The primary forms of moral imagination are concepts with prototype structure, semantic frames, conceptual metaphors, and narratives.”

To become morally insightful we must become knowledgeable of these imaginative structures. First, we must give up our illusions about absolute moral codes and also our radical moral subjectivism. Second we must refine our “perception of character traits and situations and of developing empathetic imagination to take up the part of others.”

Empathy is a character trait that can be cultivated by habit and will. Sympathy is somewhat of an automatic response.

When we see a mother weeping over the death of her child caused by a suicide bomber we feel immediate sympathy. Often we will come to tears. But we do not feel anything like that for the mother who may be weeping over the death of her child who was the bomber.

To understand the bomber we must use empathy. We attempt through imagination and reason to create a situation that will allow us to understand why this was done. This is a rational means to understand someone who acts different than we would.

“Empathy is the idea that the vital properties which we experience in or attribute to any person or object outside ourselves are the projections of our own feelings and thoughts.”

The subject viewing an object of art experiences emotional attitudes leading to feelings that are attributes of qualities in the art object thus aesthetic pleasure may be considered as “objectified self-enjoyment in which the subject and object are fused.”

The social sciences adopt a similar concept called ‘empathic understanding’, which refers to the deliberate attempt to identify with another person and accounting for that persons actions by “our own immediate experience of our motivations and attitudes in similar circumstances as we remember or imagine them”. This idea refers to a personal resonance between two people.

“What is crucial is that our moral reasoning can be constrained by the metaphoric and other imaginative structures shared within our culture and moral tradition, yet it can also be creative in transforming our moral understanding, our identity, and the course of our lives. Without this kind of imaginative reasoning we would lead dreadfully impoverished lives. We would be reduced to repeating habitual actions, driven by forces and contingencies beyond our control.”

Can you imagine an individual who is a hard headed realist and very accomplished at empathy sanctioning the use of water torture on anyone, friend or enemy?
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It appears to me that few people have ever been taught anything about empathy. Empathy is an effort of the imagination to walk in the shoes of another. I suspect that anyone who understand the meaning of empathy and has been able to walk in the shoes of another could not torture that individual.

Take anyone who you know well and truly despise and imagine torturing that individual. I do not think any normal person could do such a thing.

I think that one of the reasons that we humans are on the path to self destruction is partially due to the fact that our culture has never embraced the understanding of empathy.
Old 02-17-2008, 09:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If WB stops terrorists from attacking this country, Im all for it.
Old 02-17-2008, 07:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why would torturing people worldwide stop people from hating America? That's like beating your wife into loving you.
Old 02-19-2008, 09:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxymoron View Post
Why would torturing people worldwide stop people from hating America? That's like beating your wife into loving you.

It wouldnt. But it would reveal current terrorist plots to destroy our country, exactly the way it did.

Just a heads up, Islam will never tolerate our way of living, it will never tolerate Christianity, it only wants to concure.
Old 02-19-2008, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Just like it revealed the Jewish plot against Rome. Oops, Jesus didn't give up his disciples, did he? Or deny his accusers. It is an oxymoron to include the terms morality and torture together in this sense. Torture is immoral, regardless of it's effectiveness or it's ineffectiveness. Grace, I cannot figure how you reconcile Christianity with torture.
Old 02-19-2008, 02:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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While it lets everyone that America tortures people. Which they already know, I guess. I think it's only a surprise to the Americans. What about "extreme rendition"? One man got scooped up by the CIA, was interrogated for months and then dumped in a foreign country when they realized he didn't know anything. It was based on a "hunch" the CIA had. Yup. That's a great way to stop people from hating your country. You think you can cow the entire world into submission? You've swallowed your insane mythos whole, lady. Here's a newsflash. You ain't a shining beacon on the hill. America's lost its way.
Old 02-19-2008, 04:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
If WB stops terrorists from attacking this country, Im all for it.
To torture an infidel is not immoral, it seems, eh Grace?
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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And it doesn't stop anyone from killing our people, it leads to them hating us more, and having a moral ground to base it on.
Old 02-19-2008, 04:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables View Post
And it doesn't stop anyone from killing our people, it leads to them hating us more, and having a moral ground to base it on.

Who cares. Just as long as we don't go into a recession

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