"Those who sacrifice essential liberties for temporary security deserve niether liberty, nor security" - Benjamin Franklin

I came across this quote recently and as I read it I could not help but think of the Patriot Act.

Comments, anyone?

America is in store for less liberty and security because of Bushwacker's unjustified war.

The PATRIOT act is simply the most horrid, and un-American piece of legislation the United States has ever seen. The broad, sweeping powers it afford both law enforcement and intelligence agencies is nothing less than orwellian in scope. It is a prime example of what happens when we make knee-jerk reactions...

Maybe you should think twice about the Patriot Act.

Everytime I hear someone criticize the Patriot Act it is always the same thing, sweeping generalizations of how it trashes are rights, our liberties and our privacy. How about you actually take the time to state what it is exactly that you do not like about the Patriot Act. Come on folks, cut the crap of broad statements and stick to specific points that you can actually argue.

dmk

Ok how about this, I don't think surrendering my right to privacy, and giving the police more broad and sweeping authority to conduct unconstitutional searches and seizures is worth the illusion of security that the PATRIOT Act affords us.

We are no more secure today than we were on 09/10/01, we just think we are. We have beatenourselves down so much, and submitted to so much control and intrusion into our lives that we are convinced we must be more secure. We could have gotten all the same benefits of the PATRIOT Act, without the surrendering of so many freedoms, and the loss of so much privacy if we had taken the time to come up with a better, more well thought out piece of legislation. Or if we had designed an Act that actually had truly genuine, and altruistic intentions. Instead we settled for a document that simply brings us closer to 1984 and big brother.

I don't understand how you can be so much against the Patriot Act while ignoring my previous post.

Do you understand that this system is proven effective? Do you understand that if you are not doing anything "wrong"...you will not need to worry?

I just don't get it.

You say we are no more secure today than we were on 9/10/01. I don't think we will ever be secure. But I feel we are more secure fighting terrorism over there than at home. Makes all the sense to me.

Please don't get me wrong. I also agree we will never be 'secure'. And I also would rather fight over there, than here at home, wherever overthere turns out to be.

My concern is this, just because a system is proven effective, does not make it right. There are all sorts of systems the Nazis and Communists used that would make us vastly more secure, but they are not morally right.

I love freedom. And I love freedom more than anything in the world. I'd rather have a little danger and be free than safe and unfree any day.

My problem with the idea of "if you are not doing anything "wrong"...you will not need to worry?" is who is to say who is doing something wrong? What prevents abuse of these new powers? I witness abuse of power almost daily, where I work and elsewhere. Last thing I want is legislation to make such abuses easier. I gave up my freedom so you caqn have yours. If you don't have yours, my sacrifice was for naught.

Again a broad and sweeping generalization. What power exactly has been granted that concerns you, how can you argue that your liberties are being violated by not even state which liberty is being violated and by what provision of the Patriot Act. If you cannot explain how your rights are violated, are you even sure that they are being violated???

dmk

Very well put.

Let start with the obvious one, the new ease for law enforcement agencies to obtain search warrants. That alone id pretty horrible. What about thier right to access your bank record without notifying you, that's pretty horrible too. I'd rather take my chance with the lower 'security'.

You also managed to completely ignore the question of how do we prevent abuses of the system? I see a lot of checks, but not much in the way of balance...