It is clear that the Bush Administration will draw some sort of line in the sand with their new Mexican slave labor policy. But the rhetoric here in the Pacific Northwest has become increasingly elevated in the past week and uniquely not from the socialists. A point has been made that the Bush Administration was choosing a communist illiterate racist peasant indian over their constituency, this is true. They are choosing a neo-slave over their bread and butter. Out with the $45,000+ a year family man, who follows all the rules, pays taxes, obeys the laws, bears the brunt of the administrations mistakes and supports the war in Iraq. This administration is wiling to throw this demographic to the lions for what they think will be a quick vote? Do they actually believe that these nationalist hispanic racist people will vote for them?!?! The rhetoric that is floating around right now speaks to this utter and irreparable betrayal of Americans. And is it not a betrayal? Are we not actually a nation of laws? Because by saying that it is okay for 11-20 million people to break the law, what then is the point of having laws? What do we have then? A nation that is governed not by votes or by laws but by shear numbers of law breakers? Many people in the Puget Sound area, which includes some famous business owners, entrepreneurs, students, laborers and the rest of the old republican constituency are teaming with some unlikely allies. These include some of the very old school democrats and workers unions. There is a lot at stake and it is important that "our" administration realize this. NO consideration has been made of the social implications of this and that means our leaders are very detached. I only say this as someone who was born and raised in the southwest so I know all too well about the Mexican flags being shoved in peoples faces. I know all too well about their machismo (the other night on Fox that Mexican professor from UCLA wanted to physically hurt Michelle Malkin, he couldn't stand a woman telling him anything). I also know ALL too well about their violence and lack of reason and nazi-like dedication to MEXICO. I grew up having to make concessions on simple things like intelligent rhetoric, knowledge and patriotism to my country just to fit in! These are the demands being made by these nationalist transformists...they seek their atzlan, their la raza unida-Do we just hand it over? Do we just let our administration destroy us? This is how we are repaid with our loyalty. They expect that they can squeeze this out of us, that we will be here for them regardless. They are counting on the opiate-like calm of our highly taxed houses and uber convenience to make us forget, lose our dignity in a barrage of sound bytes and double speak. For 50 years they have lied to us and we have let it happen. We are a nation of laws. I am not really sure that I want to live in a nation that has betrayed my long life of service, my veteranship, my loyalty and my patriotism. What then do I have left? The comfort of this mexican amnesty quilt? Nothing so porous will ever keep me warm. Is this in fact our own leaders turning the pistol on us for their lust of the moment? Not for me and I must say that this is a line I will not cross. As always, our forefathers have said it best:

A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, February 12, 1779

Accept nothing less than deportation! They attempt to lose deportation in a mountain of rhetoric citing logistics...But I propose, what cost is the law? Will civil war be our voice?

The blame in this lies more than just with the Bush Administration. This has been a total let down by many members of both parties. The liberal interpretations of the Courts in allowing illegal immigrants to qualify for social services, the requirement that illegal immigrants children be allowed to attend public schools, and both parties, Democrat and Republican alike wanting to allow some kind of amnesty.

The conservative members of the House passed legislation that would have made it a crime to be in this country illegally. The legislation also included language that would have resulted in the prosecution of companies who knowingly hired illegal immigrants. The Senate version of the legislation has removed the criminal aspect of illegal immigrants. There are locales in this country that will not allow its law enforcement to apprehend illegal immigrants, so it is far more than just the Bush administration.

I watched as all those protestors marched in the streets and could not believe what I was seeing. I wonder how many of those students know that in Mexico it is against the law to be in the country illegally? The police in Mexico will arrest you and detain you until such time as you are deported. In our country we do not even detain the individuals. We catch and release, giving them instead a court date in which many do not even show up.

Instead we now have legislation that allows for illegal immigrants to become guest workers who can work their way toward citizenship. But it is not amnesty, or so we are told, because the individuals must pay fines and wait behind those who immigrate legally. You say tomato, I say tomatoe.

dmk

Except that I'm a republican and the Bush administration has the opportunity to " do the right thing" However, we know that that there have been 8 amnesties since 1986. Each amnesty results in the influx of millions 12 million since the original Reagan one.
Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 1986: A blanket amnesty for some 2.7 million illegal aliens
2. Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens
3. Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994
4. Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America
5. Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 825,000 illegal aliens from Haiti
6. Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 800,000 illegal aliens
7. LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens
8. Nine current bills are vying to be Amnesty No. 8
Now for each of those numbers once one family memeber is a citizen or alien, they are entitled to bring their entire family.
Once Bush announced in 2004 that there was a proposed guest worker program, 90% of the illegals apprehended stated they were coming here for amnesty
One factor are the actual people. The other is that this destroys rule of law.
Consider this:

Far be it for me to take sides here. Sitting overseas and actuallyl neverhaving lived in america i wouldn't know what i'm talking about.

However, the way it seems to me, 11 -20 million people can not be disregarded. Forget about everything else, but they are 11 - 20 million people on U.S. soil and i don't think anything short of a massive military operation is going to get them the hell out. So while deportation may seem fair in theory, its an impossible feat.

Where to take it from there? My understanding is that a large portion of these 11 - 20 million are part of the american workforce. Many of them because they are cheap labor. Let say 2 Million work in the states. How many american businesses will that affect?

So instead of a passionate emotional response i think it is better to tackle the problem for what it IS, rather than what it should be.

Making it a crime to be illegally in the U.S. is only going to increase the crime rate statistics, not really make much of a dent in the illegal immigration. When life is hard and you live hand to mouth, a stint in a U.S. detention facility aint that much of a risk.

In stead i think the U.S. government would do better if they accepted that these individuals are partof the landscape and must be integrated so there can be made efforts to minimalize their negative impact on america, and indeed turn it into a positive influence.

The mexicans could learn something about humility and respect for the country they live in. Be loyal to the country you live in or get lost. However these lessons in humility are never taught by force. Those are lessons in submission, which wear off reeeeaaaaal quick and come back to bite u in the bee-hind. Dialogue and debate is the only way to resolution.

BTW if anybody is under the mistaken impression that illegal immigration is the cause of poveryt, sickness, illiteracy and a crushing national debt in the U.S. i would beg to differ. The U.S. has enough money to feed and clothe everybody on the planet. It because most of the money meant for americans is concentrated in the hands of a few rich people. They are the reasons the U.S. citizens live below the poverty line, they are the reason not everybody gets medical attention, they are the reason that many people are so frustrated with their lives that they decide to join a gang or rob an honest citizen so they can feed their own children.

I think the emergence of this issue is nothing more than a Bush admin tactic to divert attention from the elites own ruthless exploitation of the american people, and pin it on any available "bad-guy".

So how do you propose to do that civil war thing? In any case, I feel that there is an inherent belief in the Bush Administration and the Republican party to a lesser extent that their constituency is expendable, always loyal and there to carry the load. This same constituency is already doing this for everything else. It should be very clear to you every time you hear someone say "it would be impossible to relocate 11 million people..." that this is why they allowed it to happen to such extremes in the first place. It then will not be a focus of deportation, but a manipulation of how an application of law is to take place in such a way that the Republican party appears the appeaser, the good guy. In other words, get the Republican constituency to use rhetoric that focuses on the problem of "securing" the border, a distractionary measure to which there is no real debate. If the administration wanted to really stem the tide of illegal immigration, they could, everyone knows this. Military experts state that it would take about 35000 agents or troops to do this, the president could accomplish this with an executive order and enforcement would occur in about 2 months. If you were to step back and ask yourself why they would do this in the macro sense, there is no legitimate answer. No logical reason we would host another nations social welfare cases. The true reason is unclear to me and I don't think I would like to know it...From another point of view, if the reason is for cheap labor, then this illustrates that the administration is detached and not really understanding the true situation-most likely this isn't the case. But lets consider the current proposal...It will create 4000 agents in the next 5 years and currently the border patrol can only train something like 200 a year with an attrition rate of over 1000 per year. Frankly it doesn't take a genius to get this, even a mexican can get this, the administration doesn't have any plans to secure the border! What we can acertain is that they have no plans on making them leave, no plans on actually having an impregnable national boundry and great plans on providing them amnesty. How can anyone not see the "secure the borders, thats definitely a problem" talking point as anything other than a diversion?

One has to consider that there are "laws" being proposed but we know all too well the history of enforcement. Let's consider the aliens themselves and better yet, let's consider why a country would have no problems pushing its people onto another country. I believe the Hispanics will play the Republican game, there will be short term gains in votes and contentment on the part of Republicans. When news commentators commented on how the nationalist transformists were parading Mexican Flags, the word got out to include American flags and almost overnight this was the case. Some propagandists, like the newspaper tree in El Paso actually carried them around and placed them in shots. This immigrant group has strong ties to socialism and communism that goes way back...At their protests there is a running battle between pictures of the Virgin Mary, Che Guevara and Ceasar Chavez. Historically, these people are driven by the mythological concept of a homeland called atzlan, stolen from Aztec myths and transformed in the 1960's as a political motivator for chicano activism. It must be said that these people are in no way Aztec, but a cross between Yaqui, Spaniard and other northern indians. There are some mexican immigrants who bear a resemblance to aztecs and share a common physicality, but these are the minority. Many owe their hybrid existence to a life around Spanish missions and townships. The nationalism of this group began with Reies Lopez Tijerina in 1966. He began a foreign funded campaign called the Land Grant Movement in New Mexico. The premise of which, at least on the surface, was to demand that the US federal government honor the treaty of Hidalgo from 1840! Let's not get too far ahead on this one...This action served Reies Lopez Tijerina by centralizing the chicano movement and unifying it, it also served the Soviet funders on many levels as well. The Soviets knew, as did Reies Lopez Tijerina, that the chances of this treaty being honored were beyond absurd, yet it created chaos in a strategic region of the US. The movement would create strong bonds between Mexicans on both sides of the border and begin a wave of illegal immigration through an area which housed some of the most critical developmental facilities in the US military. White Sands Missle Range a strategic defense research center focusing not only on missile technology, but nuclear, chemical, laser and other special projects. include McGregor Range, Meyer Small Arms Range, SHORAD Range, and Orogrande Range. The nearby Otero Range is important to the Stealth Fighter and Bomber squadrons stationed in Alamagordo, NM as it contained some physical areas used to simulate defensive and tactical strategy in the European Theater and a potential conflict between the Soviet Union and the west. El Paso was nearby and highly important as it had in its proximity Fort Bliss. Home to USAADACENFB the U.S. Army’s Air Defense and Artillery Center and U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) installation. It is the only U.S. Army training installation in the continental U.S. capable of firing long-range Air Defense Artillery missiles, such as Patriot, HAWK and eventually the Theater High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD) System. It also hosts four air-defense brigades assigned to the U.S. Army Forces Command (FORSCOM), the 3rd Armored Calvary, 11th Air defense Artillery brigade, 108th Air Defense Artillery Brigade, 32nd Army Air and Missile Defense Command, 35th Air Defense Artillery Brigade and most importantly Fort Bliss plays host to huge Joint Task Force War Games that practiced strategy against WARSAW pact forces. In New Mexico we also have Kirtland Air Force Base which is home to Nuclear Weapons Center, 377th Air Base Wing, 498 Armament System Wing and various top secret research facilities.Nearby Kirtland is the Los Alamos Scientific Research Facility, home of the Manhattan Project. There are many other facilities in New Mexico but it becomes clear that there is a vested interest in Soviet interdiction policy. But Tijerina's nationalist message about "chicano" is picked up by Rodolfo "Corky" Gonzales in Denver and later encompasses Cesar Chavez Farmworkers. They have successfully created a new identity seperate from the US population, rooted in socialism with a desire for land based on a mythological, almost nazi like connection with agrarianism. They are funded by many foreign entities with similar political interests and this gave birth to the La Raza Unida party, a racist, mexican nationalist organization with the goal of territorial gains of US lands. In 1968 the fetish with the nationalist transformists as a political toy. Do to riots and unrest in California, Robert Kennedy spotted an opportunity and built a relationship with La Raza Unida and gained the chicano movement as a loyal voting block. The Republicans have only found that appeasement is the only way to get temporary gains in the Mexcian American community ballot box. La Raza Unida broke off and reformed over the years, but the tie to foreign funding and nationalistic identity has never changed. Quickly and long before this modern collectivist upheavel Mexican Americans have had a long history of violence, flirtations with nationalism and hatred of America, Americans and white people. The Zoot Suit riots occured as Mexicans refused to cooperate with the war effort in WW2 and ration cloth and other items as millions of Americans were doing. They wore expensive suits and drove around in cars with brand new tires, had gold watches and generally did everything they could to demonstrate their lack of support for the US. It is also worth metioning that Mexico nearly signed a treaty with Nazi Germany and didn't do to heavy backroom threatening from the US. What this brings us back to is the composition of these people and their use as groundpounders in a larger scheme. Their transformative capacity can be best illustrated by Mao Tse tungs treastise on Guerilla Struggle, in which he asserts that there are 3 conditions to be met for successful subversion.
1) translated: "the active support of a significant portion of the population, say 10%. It is sufficient that the remainder are apathetic or terrorized into submission."
Criteria met: By 2015 68-71% of the southwest will be mexicans from mexico
2) translated: "secure sanctuaries for the guerrilla formations to operate from. An adjacent country whose government actively supports the guerrillas is ideal, but in-country sanctuaries such as jungles, swamps or moun- tains will suffice."
Criteria met: If you do not know this one please learn Spanish.
3) translated: "ongoing aid from a foreign government in the form of financial assistance, armaments, diplomatic and other support "
Criteria met: Several countries which include Mexico, much of communist central american countries, Columbia, Russia, Germany, France and the Middle East.
source: Samuel B, Griffith, Mao Tse-Tung on Guerrilla Warfare, Praeger Publishers

So at what point can anything other than the rule of ALREADY established law be successful? I am completely aware that this divisive issue benefits the democrat party, regardless of the republican decision or action. The only solution is the deportation and then take the onslaught, this would then in turn split the democratic party from their union base and anti-nafta base. There is absolutely no other way! Anything else is a betrayal of the constitution no matter how you frame it.

Hell let's send Arnold back!

Not this one!


This one!


http://www.arnoldwatch.org/

Did you have to bring up Nazi's?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

Let me propose an observation. There is a constant misconception, generally to do with the illegal aliens that are here. It makes its way into news anchor discourse by means of talking points like "out of the shadows" and "they'll go underground." A few weeks ago many of the illegals were parading about with flags of Che, Mexico, AFL CIO and Venezula. Some reporters and commentators made notice of this and mentioned that it "may" be hurting their cause. Almost overnight, they were told to wear white (this spreads out in video images, especially arial shots) and to brandish american flags. Point being...These are a highly centralized group from which they can be accessed and directed, so somebody knows they are there. This isn't in the shadows at all. Secondly, a group is controlling them and funding them . This is important because the president slated to replace Vicente Fox is a Hugo Chavez type. What country in the history of the world wouldn't have loved to have control of 20 million people in another countries land?
What I don't understand is why all the apathy? Why aren't people enraged at the obvious and chronic disregard of Rule Of Law? What will it take, or have we already lost? The illegals haven't really exposed their true face yet except briefly in Portland OR. They became enraged at a group of counter protesters and attacked them. These are violent collectivists and what gets me to no end is that they are illegally here making demands of our government! I don't understand this?!?!
Does anyone not see the ramifications of this?

A 5 minute audio message from Tom Tancredo and JD Hayworth
Audio Message

Also, I would just add this source as a focal point for the demonstrative question at play...What to do about executive violation of the Rule of Law?

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0892a.asp