Defending the Truth

This is mainly for the gun supporters.

1. In the interest of keeping our country safer, do you think that there should be any limits placed on guns? (magazine capacity, rounds per second, automatic handguns, round size, etc...)

2. Also, why is it that the people yelling loudest about national security, who are willing to sign away our rights in the interest of public safety, are the ones most staunchly opposed to restricting guns? Gun violence in America kills more Americans every year than all terrorist attacks totaled. Why are we willing to go to such great lengths for safety from others, but not for safety from within?

Really interesting point of view.

The Patriot Act is good and necessary, even if it infringes on our privacy rights somewhat.
You can't have my gun! It says right in the 2nd Amendment that I can have it!
Abortions are wrong because every life is sacred, except those convicted of capital crimes.

Hypocrisy shows it's ugly face in many places...

I think there should be limits placed on the weapons you can buy, and I do think that all privately owned weapons should be registered. However, I also feel that private armys and well regulated civil militias should have less restricted gun access.

I was actually surprised to see your second comment, you are usually more clear thinking than that. Your statement is actually quite ridiculous. Why don't you present us with some more complete statistics? Such as how many of those gun deaths in the U.S. are comitted with legally purchased and registered weapons? How many of the incidents are accidents and due to lack of training? You see education, not prohibition is the key. More people in America die in auto related deaths than gun deaths, should we ban Autos? A lot are maimed by power tools, should they be banned? No. The simple fact of the matter is that they are all tools, and with proper training and education can be used effectively.

Amf, I know how you feel, and why you are making this statement, but for the record...

I am VERY anti Patriot Act, I am pro choice, I think the war on terror is a ridiculous front to provide the illusion of safety, and I am very pro gun. I own many weapons, and I will never surrender any of them of my own free will. No more than I would surrender any of my other personal property.

Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War

Gun Deaths Yearly Avg. in Us: approx 30,000.
(source: CDC, National Center for Health Statistics.)

Since I have not yet been able to find any statistic concerning numbers of deaths attributed to registered vs. unregistered guns, (I would appreciate any help on finding this stat) I'll be completely unscientific and guess.

Let's pretend that only 10% of gun deaths in the US are from registered guns. That would mean that 3000 people die every year from completely legal firearms.

No. Let's err on the side of caution.
Let's call it 5%
1,500 people a year. That's about 4.1 per day nation wide, which I'd say is an extremely conservative estimate.

So, we won't even worry about the ones committed using illegal guns.

That would mean that every two years, registered guns out-total the sept. 11th death toll. People were outraged enough by those attacks to give up 200+ year old rights, but not about the same number of deaths happening every two years, over and over and over?

Let's also not forget, an unregistered weapon was once a registered weapon. Unregistered guns don't just fall into criminals pockets. Theft, intentional illegal resale, gun shows (many of which require no background check) all work together to boost the number of illegal guns in the US. As long asit is legal to buy guns, people will be willing to turn around and sell them to criminals.

The sale of most types assault weapons was banned in 1995. Lets look at the stats on this one.
Use of Assault Weapons in Crimes, 1995 - 2002 (source: Small Arms/Firearms Education and Research Network)

1995 3.57%
1996 2.53%
1997 2.02%
1998 1.80%
1999 1.91%
2000 1.59%
2001 1.30%
2002 1.22%

Well, I guess banning guns doesn't do a damn thing. (Except maybe reduce the number of people that get killed with them.) We took down the number of people getting killed by assault rifles, now let's work on handguns.

And I'll end with this quote, keep in mind that this could be your mother, your brother or sister, or even you someday.

"I don't know if it was a legal gun or not, I just know a gun shot me"
28 year old paralysed in a shooting incident
(source: Gun Control Alliance website)


(Also, don't forget to give your thoughts on the first question in this post, the second question was more of an afterthought, but has gotten all of the attention.)

I know. I was trying to make fun of conservative gun owners who support the Patriot Act. My guess is they have a decent population and their hypocrisy is all the more visible, given that they defend their right to own guns with the same Bill of Rights that is infringed upon by the Patriot Act. The abortion thing was just another shot at Texas I guess, who year in year out executes more death row criminals more than any other state, yet our President, hailing from that state, says abortion (and letting Terri Schiavo die) is wrong because every life is sacred. Of course, that's just me being a sarcastic liberal from Massachusetts again...

Responding to your questions:

1. I don't see the point of placing limits on guns. Criminals will be able to obtain guns with whatever magazine capacity, rounds per second, etc. via the wonderful black market. Thus, one would only be restricting the law abiding citizens who just want to buy a better gun. I do believe that there should be a mandatory gun safety course before one can purchase a gun, because education is key.

2. I believe that that is an extremely hypocritical view to have. Since I do not share these views, I can't find the logic in them, but if I were to guess, these people support anything that would supposedly "protect" them, and since guns protect, and the Patriot Act supposedly is to protect the country, they support both.

I'm an old-fashioned gun-totin' LIBERAL.

I would be perfectly willing to have all automatic and assault weapons banned - as long as they can figure out how to get them away from the criminals.

I would RATHER give up my right to own guns than give up my right to privacy...if we HAVE to have a choice. I don't know why there has to be a choice.

If I were a woman, I'd be against partial birth abortions and all trimester abortions. All first and second trimester abortions should be legal. However. I'm not a woman - I'll never have to make this choice - and I'm willing to allow a woman to make a choice what to do with her body and what she will allow to feed off it.

Far be it from me to cause any controversy as a complete newbie but I felt I had to say something regarding the state of affairs here in the gun control forum.

As you see this is my first post and making it the Gun Control forum pretty much will tell you what my first and foremost priority is with regards to political matters.I am unashamedly a single issue voter.

I am quite surprised at the lack of knowledge of more than a few people who are obviously anti gun and also at a few who say they are pro gun.I have read through most of the gun control forum and have heard a Semi Automatic Firearm described as a Full Auto.I have heard varying different opinions as to the law and its various different interpretations that are completely false.I have heard some of the most hideous bunk regarding .50 caliber weapons I have ever heard in my life.

One of the biggest points that seems to be raised on this particular forum is as follows.

The question of the Militia arguement. This was by far the only arguement that the anti gun crowd could come up with to try and usurp the second amendment and has been going on since the sixties.Its an age old and well worn out argument that even the most prolific of Anti Gun Organisations no longer even use as it is such a poor argument with no merit and certainly not based even in reality or fact.

Anyone who even uses this approach is so out of touch with recent events by the Brady Bunch aka Handgun Control inc etc. that for them to use this material I would question their commitment to the Anti Gun cause.

One of the worst things I have heard on this forum is the term 'illegal gun'.

Can anyone please explain to me what this term means? I am at a total loss trying to figure it out.

I am the first person to stand up for anyones right to free speech even if that conflicts with my own opinion.However I do hold the belief that if one engages in a public debate one should at least have their facts correct before doing so.

Look forward to all and any comments.