Good point by Jay Severin

RidinHighSpeeds · 08-08-2005, 08:22 PM

Now I heard this a long time ago on talkradio, but I will try to remember as much as I can. This is something Jay Severin brought up which made much sense to me.

If you had to have a major operation...who would you rather have as a surgeon??

The man with an average grade of a C who was accepted into medical school because the school needed to meet it's quota due to affirmative action...or the man who was not accepted because he had a grade point average of a B+, but was not part of that minority???

aMFliberal · 08-08-2005, 09:36 PM

Are you really going to compare a surgeon's college grades with another surgeon to see who is more qualified for the job? If you're going to compare grades, at least compare their medical school grades. But even then..I mean seriously, who's going to look at the grades? You're going to go where your doctor refers you or the best hospital that you can go to. This is a weak argument by Jay Severin.

And for the record, I'm only for affirmative action as a necessary evil temporarily. Equal opportunity in schools should be from start to finish. I don't agree with the principles of affirmative action whatsoever, but I recognize it as, like I said, a necessary evil. I think this particular argument by Severin is very weak though.

hevusa · 08-09-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Now I heard this a long time ago on talkradio, but I will try to remember as much as I can. This is something Jay Severin brought up which made much sense to me.

If you had to have a major operation...who would you rather have as a surgeon??

The man with an average grade of a C who was accepted into medical school because the school needed to meet it's quota due to affirmative action...or the man who was not accepted because he had a grade point average of a B+, but was not part of that minority???

Regardless of grades a medical student would have to pass the same quality control tests to prove they are worthy. The argument is weak at best. And the percentage of cases like this in regards to affirmative action are probably miniscule overall. One could never make the statement : "Affimative Action lowers our quality of Health Care". It would simply be false.

aMFliberal · 08-09-2005, 11:28 AM

The other thing I realized is that racial quotas are unconstitutional as well. I know you were posting from memory and it's a minor detail of the hypothetical as it is but I just figured while we were talking about it...
Minority quotas for affirmative action were declared unconstitutional in the 1978 Regents of the University of California vs. Bakke. Bakke was a white engineer working for NASA trying to get into medical school. He was not admitted even though his scores were higher than several admitted students. The school had set a 16/100 quota for "disadvantaged" applicants. California Supreme Court ruled Bakke should be admitted. The school appealed to the Supreme Court which subsequently ruled the same way while declaring racial quotas unconstitutional. Schools can still use discretion to promote diversity but they can't actually set numbers for spots.

prescott911 · 08-09-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Now I heard this a long time ago on talkradio, but I will try to remember as much as I can. This is something Jay Severin brought up which made much sense to me.

If you had to have a major operation...who would you rather have as a surgeon??

The man with an average grade of a C who was accepted into medical school because the school needed to meet it's quota due to affirmative action...or the man who was not accepted because he had a grade point average of a B+, but was not part of that minority???

Regardless of grades a medical student would have to pass the same quality control tests to prove they are worthy. The argument is weak at best. And the percentage of cases like this in regards to affirmative action are probably miniscule overall. One could never make the statement : "Affimative Action lowers our quality of Health Care". It would simply be false.

Most liberals lack a thing called common sense. Cases like this are miniscule, but still exist and still should be dealt with, are you implying that only sucks for the few patients that have to deal with the lower than should be healthcare and they should be the ones stuck with it as well as dealing with it??

In the system of capital punishment there are cases, well a few cases, in which the accused are found guilty when they are infact innocent. Just because this number is miniscule and small does not mean it should not be dealt with.

aMFliberal · 08-09-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prescott911

Most liberals lack a thing called common sense. Cases like this are miniscule, but still exist and still should be dealt with, are you implying that only sucks for the few patients that have to deal with the lower than should be healthcare and they should be the ones stuck with it as well as dealing with it??

In the system of capital punishment there are cases, well a few cases, in which the accused are found guilty when they are infact innocent. Just because this number is miniscule and small does not mean it should not be dealt with.

I'm just going to disregard your first sentence. As far as capital punishment and affirmative action go, I think there is little comparison. It is really hard to get into medical school either way. I don't even know what the difference in scores for affirmative action applicants is but I'm willing to bet it is not that large. Given that, like hev said they all have to pass the same tests to get a degree anyway.

hevusa · 08-09-2005, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prescott911

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

Now I heard this a long time ago on talkradio, but I will try to remember as much as I can. This is something Jay Severin brought up which made much sense to me.

If you had to have a major operation...who would you rather have as a surgeon??

The man with an average grade of a C who was accepted into medical school because the school needed to meet it's quota due to affirmative action...or the man who was not accepted because he had a grade point average of a B+, but was not part of that minority???

Regardless of grades a medical student would have to pass the same quality control tests to prove they are worthy. The argument is weak at best. And the percentage of cases like this in regards to affirmative action are probably miniscule overall. One could never make the statement : "Affimative Action lowers our quality of Health Care". It would simply be false.

Most liberals lack a thing called common sense. Cases like this are miniscule, but still exist and still should be dealt with, are you implying that only sucks for the few patients that have to deal with the lower than should be healthcare and they should be the ones stuck with it as well as dealing with it??

In the system of capital punishment there are cases, well a few cases, in which the accused are found guilty when they are infact innocent. Just because this number is miniscule and small does not mean it should not be dealt with.

There is a big difference. I don't think someone's life is in jeopardy between a B+ and C average. They would have passed all the necessary requirements.

RidinHighSpeeds · 08-09-2005, 08:53 PM

Maybe I can reword this a little bit...

Do you think it's fair that the student got into med school with a C+ average and a lower IQ score than the other student because of his race??

I just understand how this can be fair. Maybe you guys can help explain how this is fair.

prescott911 · 08-09-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

Quote:

Originally Posted by prescott911

Most liberals lack a thing called common sense. Cases like this are miniscule, but still exist and still should be dealt with, are you implying that only sucks for the few patients that have to deal with the lower than should be healthcare and they should be the ones stuck with it as well as dealing with it??

In the system of capital punishment there are cases, well a few cases, in which the accused are found guilty when they are infact innocent. Just because this number is miniscule and small does not mean it should not be dealt with.

I'm just going to disregard your first sentence. As far as capital punishment and affirmative action go, I think there is little comparison. It is really hard to get into medical school either way. I don't even know what the difference in scores for affirmative action applicants is but I'm willing to bet it is not that large. Given that, like hev said they all have to pass the same tests to get a degree anyway.

Yea, but affirmative action, permitts people that are a minority to get into that college or uni, so that they can have an oppurtinity to take that test.

Nebraskaboy · 08-09-2005, 09:41 PM

Its a joke. It is just reverse racism.