Apology for Slavery...

foundit66 · 01-18-2007, 11:42 PM

(AP) A Virginia state legislator is sparking outrage over remarks made arguing against a proposed apology by the state to the descendants of slaves.

Republican delegate Frank D. Hargrove, in comments published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Va., said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added: "I personally think that our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted the 79-year-old lawmaker as saying: "Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

Responding to his critics Tuesday, Hargrove, who is 79, told a delegate whose Jewish ancestors immigrated from Nazi-occupied Poland that the delegate's skin is "a little too thin."

Black House of Delegates members swiftly denounced the comments Hargrove made on the holiday commemorating the life and mission of civil rights leader Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

"When somebody tells me I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by projecting that I am appalled, absolutely appalled," said Delegate Dwight C. Jones, head of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Delegate David L. Englin, a Democrat, seated next to Hargrove, spoke passionately about his grandparents leaving Poland "where they were driven from their homes by people who believed that as Jews, we killed Christ."

As he held up a wallet-sized photo of his 7-year-old son, Caleb, Englin struggled to keep his composure as he pondered the possibility that his child might have to cope with anti-Semitic comments.

When Englin sat, Hargrove reached over and softly patted Englin on the arm. Then, Hargrove rose to speak and, looking down at his seatmate, said, "I didn't even know you were Jewish, I had no idea of what your religion, (and) I don't care what your religion is. I don't care."

"I think your skin was a little too thin," he said as Republicans and Democrats gasped and groaned in disbelief.

Such comments by any elected official only add to the anti-Jewish animosity, said David Friedman, director of the Washington, D.C., regional office of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League.

"What he has done is inject his own personal bigotry into a very difficult and heated discussion and in no way, by injecting that, does he do anything to illuminate the debate," Friedman said. "He raised the need for an apology in a manner that I'm sure he never intended."

The controversy hits nerves already sore in Virginia, only a few months after another incident involving a racially-charged comment by an elected official.

At an August campaign rally before a mostly white crowd, then-Senator George Allen pointed into the crowd to a Virginia-born man of Indian descent working as a volunteer for his Democratic opponent and referred to him as a "macaca," a racial slur in some cultures. What had been a comfortable lead held by the GOP incumbent evaporated as the remarks became a campaign issue, and Allen lost to Democrat Jim Webb, by a margin of about 9,000 votes.
Slavery Remarks Spark Outrage, Black And Jewish Leaders Criticize Va. Lawmaker's Comments In Slavery Apology Debate - CBS News

Jaxian · 01-19-2007, 01:02 PM

I'm not so certain about this apology thing. What does it actually mean for a "state" to apologize? The state isn't a living creature. It has no ability to feel sorry for something. All it means is that a majority of state congressmen voted for the state to apologize, instead of apologizing themselves.

Furthermore, what is the meaning of this apology? People who never owned slaves nor supported slavery are voting to apologize to people who have never been slaves. Is this really meaningful? Will anyone be better off? If anything, I think that this will simply encourage people to keep thinking in terms of race.

So why vote for this apology? I think it's a game of politics: politicians will use this to show how great they are and how much they deserved to be reelected.

Or maybe there are some good effects of this apology, which I have overlooked? What do you guys think?

tristanrobin · 01-19-2007, 01:17 PM

I can't think of what good it will do - though I don't care if they do it, either.

My grandparents came here during the Nazi reign in Germany - we have never had anything to do with slavery.

But - if it makes people feel better - it can't hurt anything, and it doesn't cost anything.

Why not?

vharlow · 01-19-2007, 03:36 PM

Weren't they debating anything ELSE that day? Is the media race obsessed?
What about the transportation funding for Northern Virginia? What about the problem of illegals? Is the AP deliberately trying to cause racial strife here?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that there was any mention of Jews in this media slavery campaign..... Needless to say, the AP doesn't impress me, although they provide the news stories for MOSTof the TV stations, etc you watch and most of the newspapers you read.

foundit66 · 01-19-2007, 04:24 PM

I am very against the apology.

If a drowning man wanted a Kevlar vest while he was flailing around in the water, we wouldn't give it to him.
But is that a good analogy?

Quite frankly, I see focusing on the past "slavery" as not accomplishing anything, and those that think it does are talking out of their arse on a power trip.
If you want to talk about CURRENT racism, fine. I'm all for that.
If you want to talk about CURRENT racial inequity, causes, and potential solutions, let's go.

But pretending that an "apology" for the past is in any way necessary or pertinent to fixing these problems today? It's not. And people who THINK it is are not focusing on the potential REAL problems.

What does the apology accomplish?
Will people who ARE actually RACIST today suddenly repent? No.
Will it change anybody's minds? No.
All it is REALLY doing is INCREASING the racial divide as some people fixate on the past.

I heard one black comedian who summarized the situation by telling her that when a white person hears a black person ask for reparations or an apology for slavery, they think "I never owned any damn slaves..."

Quite frankly, what is the difference inbetween admitting that the past slavery was a terribly wrong thing, which I don't think there is any dispute over, and actually apologizing for it?
The difference, IMO, is that the apology demonstrates OWNERSHIP and RESPONSIBILITY for the past evils when we (in the present) are not responsible for the slavery which occurred over a century ago.

I saw two people discussing this on a news segment last night, and I was incredibly annoyed at the black man who kept making bullsh!t statement. Like presenting an analogy where a husband refused to admit what he did in the past to the wife and how that would damage the relationship.
1) The husband DID NOT do anything to the wife in the past. It would be more like the wife demanding an apology for something the husband's great-great-grandfather did to HIS wife a long time ago, when all parties involved are long dead.
2) NOBODY is refusing to admit to the slavery which occurred in the past. Some idiots (excuse my language, but I can't help it) deny the existence of the Holocaust. But have you EVER met ANYBODY who denied the existence of slavery???

Anyways, if we're going to fix the problems of today it WILL NOT be accomplished by giving an apology. All that shows is that some people have a grudge for something that didn't even happen to them, and THAT (IMO) is more part of the problem than it is something that needs to be acquiesced to improve the problem.

Antithesis · 01-19-2007, 06:20 PM

Reparations and apologies should be voluntary. It's a "sins of the father" situation. I'm from an Irish-Catholic family, but I never felt I needed to apologize to protestants for the bombings the IRA did in the past. I wasn't involved, and so I don't owe anybody a damn thing. The best we can do is acknowledge atrocities for happening so that we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Apologies only make modern people, many of whom don't have a racist cell in their body, seem guilty of a crime.

hkbajwa · 01-20-2007, 05:57 AM

I dunno if Hargrove is a bigot or not. You can quite simply not derive that conclusion from his comments.

What he said was essentially that it is HISTORY. It is ridiculous for a black american to still be emotionally invested in SLAVERY. If ANYTHING, the state should apologise for denial of civil rights to blacks. That is a much more relevant topic, and something that was experienced by people STILL ALIVE TODAY.

Likewise i find it sad and opportunistic of that jewish fellow who held up a picture of his son almost "losing his composure" because his kid might have been born in a nazi world. Dammit he DIDN'T. Which is the important part to remember. To me it just sounded like a politician hungry for votes and utlizing the tragedy that befell his parents as a method of collecting those sympathetic votes.

Wanting to MOVE ON is not BIGOTRY. I mean heck, the palestinians are being told to "get over it" and shut up and make peace with Israel aren't they? That is not a bigoted statement. that is an encouragement to MOVE ON and make life BETTER.. Instead of sitting around whining about how bad the world USED to treat people LIKE you.

Hargrove may be a bigot.. that i don't know. But i would certainly never all him one for making these statements.

To me it sounded like a man who went beyond racial, religious and ehtnic differences and urged other people to do the same.

Hysteria this is.

vharlow · 01-20-2007, 09:43 AM

My son, a resident of Richmond, says that Hargrove is a hero down there in that part of the state. An informal poll showed that 78% of the people agree with him. Can you guess the racial mix of Richmond, VA? So, I gather that certainly not a large majority of Richmond blacks are so foolish.

I'm still wondering what they are going to do about the roads in Northern Virginia, and they are wasting time talking about this stuff.

My son also says for the state do make such an official apology would lead to reparations claims and lawsuits by the millions from people who never were even remotely related to anyone who was a slave in Virginia, and I know he's right about that.

Antithesis · 01-20-2007, 01:45 PM

I find it shameful that black groups demand reparations and focus on trying to right past wrongs while giving less attention to the real injustices that blacks face on a daily basis. They need to choose their battles and deal with the here and now instead of fretting over the past.

sgtdmski · 01-22-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

My son, a resident of Richmond, says that Hargrove is a hero down there in that part of the state. An informal poll showed that 78% of the people agree with him. Can you guess the racial mix of Richmond, VA? So, I gather that certainly not a large majority of Richmond blacks are so foolish.

I'm still wondering what they are going to do about the roads in Northern Virginia, and they are wasting time talking about this stuff.

My son also says for the state do make such an official apology would lead to reparations claims and lawsuits by the millions from people who never were even remotely related to anyone who was a slave in Virginia, and I know he's right about that.

According to the 2000 Census, the city of Richmond is 38% White, 57% Black, and 5% other minority groups.

If Hargrove has a 75% support what exactly does that mean. Well if you assume, which I know is dangerous, but for the sake of argument let us do it any way, that all 38% of whites agree, and since slavery did not effect the other minority groups that they agree as will, that only adds up to 43%. That means an additional 32% of people, who have to be black must agree as well. In other words over half of the blacks in Richmond have to agree with Hargrove.

If this is the case, then a great disservice is being done to this people.

dmk