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King George W.: James Madison’s Nightmare

Branches of Government Debate topics of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of Government.

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Old 12-06-2007, 12:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreDems-Reps View Post
As long as we have the current REP-DEM Monopoly on the US Government things
like this are going to take place!

Look no matter what Bush has done sooner or latter his partners, friends, colleges
and "Sting Pullers" in the REP party will be back in power!

They might get a 4 or 8 year "Time Out", but they will be back in power! Why ?
Because America is stuck or brain washed in to thinking that we can only have
the lesser of two Evils in office.

At the end of the day is all the Reps or Dems have to do is be a little bit better/
"less destructive" than the other party(respectively) and they will win.

We get debit, world crisis, environmental crisis, social and economical strain
And politicians (REPS&DEMS) get power and a raise!


Maybe I should become a REP or DEM Politician! I can lie to you take your money
screw you over and you will just vote me back in to office!
You are so right about the two-party system. They've even moved up the primaries to keep others out. How "American" is that?

I propose we surprise the hell out of them and vote independent, kick every democrat and republican from office and start over fresh...AFTER Ron Paul is elected in 2008, that is!
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I just got to thinking after posting the above: Ron Paul is sworn in as POTUS January 2008. 2010 is when the senate and house comes up for re-election. Then the people elect only those running on an independant or libertarian ticket, thus killing the GOP and Democratic Party!!
Old 12-06-2007, 05:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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SOUNDS LIKE A WINNER...
Old 12-06-2007, 06:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
— James Madison (attributed to Madison, by his contemporaries)

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
— Thomas Jefferson (attributed to Jefferson, by his contemporaries)
Old 12-06-2007, 06:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
— James Madison (attributed to Madison, by his contemporaries)

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
— Thomas Jefferson (attributed to Jefferson, by his contemporaries)
How many slaves did Madison and Jefferson own between them?
Old 12-06-2007, 08:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
How many slaves did Madison and Jefferson own between them?
Not only that but Jefferson wrote about the inferiority of blacks and advocated the pursuit of 'racist science'.

But to be fair, when in public office Jefferson advocated against slavery, even abolishing the slave trade, though short of complete emancipation.

But, I do think the romantic infatuation with the founders in this country is a little out of proportion. We're better off now then we were then.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
How many slaves did Madison and Jefferson own between them?
What does that have to do with what the criminals are doing today? At least Madison and Jefferson didn't break the law or trample the Constitutions Slavery was legal; perhaps not morally right, but still legal.

So, what are you suggesting, garysher? that because Madison and Jefferson held slaves we reject their wisdom?

Pretty good argument, garysher! I said the politicians in office now are selling us down the river, destroying the constitution, ripping our freedoms to shreds and all you have to say, "Yeah, but Madison and Jefferson held slaves".

How many slaves did they have, do you know? And how well (or bad) did they treat them?

I could present a lame argument, too, like, "Yeah, but the African Negroes sold them to the white traders." See how dumb that sounds?
Old 12-07-2007, 01:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
What does that have to do with what the criminals are doing today? At least Madison and Jefferson didn't break the law or trample the Constitutions Slavery was legal; perhaps not morally right, but still legal.

So, what are you suggesting, garysher? that because Madison and Jefferson held slaves we reject their wisdom?

Pretty good argument, garysher! I said the politicians in office now are selling us down the river, destroying the constitution, ripping our freedoms to shreds and all you have to say, "Yeah, but Madison and Jefferson held slaves".

How many slaves did they have, do you know? And how well (or bad) did they treat them?

I could present a lame argument, too, like, "Yeah, but the African Negroes sold them to the white traders." See how dumb that sounds?
It sounds almost as dumb as waxing lyrical about freedom whilst owning dozens of slaves!

Are you honestly saying you can't see the hypocrisy?
Old 12-07-2007, 11:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
It sounds almost as dumb as waxing lyrical about freedom whilst owning dozens of slaves!

Are you honestly saying you can't see the hypocrisy?
I can honestly say "I see no hypocrisy".

Here are the verses in the New Testament that our Founding Fathers read and the churches of their day taught.

Eph 6:5 -
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Col 3:22 -
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Tit 2:9 -
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

Just a few in case you didn't feel like clicking the link.

Now, I ask you, "why would you think they were hypocrits?"

Do you believe slavery exists today? I do!
Old 12-07-2007, 11:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Not only that but Jefferson wrote about the inferiority of blacks and advocated the pursuit of 'racist science'.
True. That was the accepted view of their day.

Quote:
But to be fair, when in public office Jefferson advocated against slavery, even abolishing the slave trade, though short of complete emancipation.
That's because the slaves would have been completely helpless. They had no education and were dependent on their owners since birth. Today that would be comparable to adopting a dog or cat, then kicking it out in the middle of winter to fend for itself after you had taken care of their needs all summer.

Quote:
But, I do think the romantic infatuation with the founders in this country is a little out of proportion. We're better off now then we were then.
Not with our freedoms slipping through our fingers each and every time Congress meets.

I am for restoring the Republic minus a few amendments that were put in place UNconstitutionally.
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