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King George W.: James Madison’s Nightmare

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Old 12-07-2007, 12:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
I can honestly say "I see no hypocrisy".

Here are the verses in the New Testament that our Founding Fathers read and the churches of their day taught.

Eph 6:5 -
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Col 3:22 -
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Tit 2:9 -
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

Just a few in case you didn't feel like clicking the link.

Now, I ask you, "why would you think they were hypocrits?"

Do you believe slavery exists today? I do!
No - Not in the US.

It sounds like you are an apologist for slavery!

Explain why a man who advocates freedom whilst owning slaves is NOT a hypocrite.

And you need to come up with something better than saying it was "the accepted view of their day".
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
No - Not in the US.

It sounds like you are an apologist for slavery!
Why? Because I stated facts? No, I am not an apologist for slavery.

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Explain why a man who advocates freedom whilst owning slaves is NOT a hypocrite.
Slavery was a common practice. Slavery wasn't something they wanted, it was a necessity.
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And you need to come up with something better than saying it was "the accepted view of their day".
The facts make it sufficient, mainly because it was the accepted view. Just as before 1919, women were to be seen, not heard. It was the "accepted view" of that day...until it changed.

If you want to talk hypocrites, you need to bring up the Northerners. They also held slaves. Do you also think it was hypocritical of them to declare war on the South about slavery when they, too, held slaves? This is where it gets confusing, because slavery was not the main reason for the war between the States.
Last edited by Observer; 12-08-2007 at 02:58 AM.
Old 12-08-2007, 04:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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garysher wrote:
Quote:
Explain why a man who advocates freedom whilst owning slaves is NOT a hypocrite.
The Supreme Court of the United States declared that slaves were property. And, this was the recognized opinion of the courts in that time. If you want to argue about it, bring it up with the Justices who declared that opinion.
Old 12-08-2007, 08:33 AM   #24 (permalink)
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What's "legal" doesn't seem too always coincide with what's "right". I can understand that owning slaves was in vogue in this country for a while. But then again, so was killing Indians that wouldn't move out of the way and marrying 7 year olds. Our valued "forefathers" were working with some laws that viewed from today's standards were kinda uncivilized.

Slavery wasn't a necessity.
Old 12-08-2007, 08:55 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Slavery wasn't necessary per se, but it was seen as useful to its day for outstanding economic growth. Of course, its legalization and institutionalization isn't necessarily an excuse for people to be in support of it. There were opponents to slavery like there are opponents to capitalism today.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 12-08-2007, 08:57 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indago View Post
garysher wrote:

The Supreme Court of the United States declared that slaves were property. And, this was the recognized opinion of the courts in that time. If you want to argue about it, bring it up with the Justices who declared that opinion.
The opinion of judges don't dictate what is right or wrong nor do they dictate the opinion of the people, they merely interpret the letter of the law. This doesn't explain the hypocrisy of the so-called 'freedom fighters'.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Last edited by Katczinsky; 12-08-2007 at 09:01 AM.
Old 12-08-2007, 09:07 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Slavery wasn't necessary per se, but it was seen as useful to its day for outstanding economic growth. Of course, its legalization and institutionalization isn't necessarily an excuse for people to be in support of it. There were opponents to slavery like there are opponents to capitalism today.
Good point, what better way to grow an economy than import free labor. Maybe the U.S government really did owe slaves 40 acres and a mule for their share of the tremendous growth of the country. Or at least some form of cash equivalent.

I'll take mine based on current NYC land prices please. Thanx.
Last edited by fxashun; 12-08-2007 at 09:11 AM.
Old 12-08-2007, 09:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Good point, what better way to grow an economy than import free labor. Maybe the U.S government really did owe slaves 40 acres and a mule for their share of the tremendous growth of the country. Or at least some form of cash equivalent.

I'll take mine based on current NYC land prices please. Thanx.
You're right, but we especially still owe the Native Americans.
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:23 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
You're right, but we especially still owe the Native Americans.
How could I neglect to mention them? Thanks for correcting me. We owe them a lot more than some land in a land-locked godforsaken state in the middle of nowhere. And a few casinos. Good point.
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