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Branches of Government Debate topics of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of Government.

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Old 12-29-2005, 09:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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New Laws Create New Criminals...
Something to consider in all future debates about Drugs, Abortion, Guns, etceteras...


Some one once said that new laws, do little more than create new criminals. And in the case of these three subjects, I believe that to be completely true.

Drugs, abortion, and guns are all things that could be considered immoral, but must be legal in a free and open society. Making them illegal will not stop them or stop people from having them, it simply criminalizes all those people.

Case in point, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was illegal to possess Soviet money outside of the USSR, if you were found in possession of it by Soviet Police they would prosecute you. However, at the airport terminal in Russia, there was an international area (technically outside of their borders) that had push carts for people to use, and to get a push cart, you had to put russian money into the machine. Meaning that anyone with a pushcart was a criminal.

We have created a system of laws that do little more than to criminalize a huge portion of society, and keep an equally large portion living in fear and restricted. It also serves to generate a lot of revenue. So now we have an entire generation of people, who were born and raised as criminals, who routinely break a wide variety of laws (jay walking, ripping CDs, smoking pot, owning a 30 round magazine, etceteras) and have come to accept these laws as being little more than a governmental excuse to shake people down for money like common thugs. We have devalued our own justice system to the populace of this country, and we accept it because we hardly realize it.

Rather than banning things willy-nilly, how about we educate people about them, and let the people make their own decisions. I promise you, if we do that, the worst of things will simply go away or at least be seriously marginalized.

Just a thought...
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Old 12-29-2005, 09:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Great post. I totally agree.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. ~Richard Armour

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle. ~Alexis de Tocqueville
Old 12-29-2005, 09:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: New Laws Create New Criminals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Something to consider in all future debates about Drugs, Abortion, Guns, etceteras...


Some one once said that new laws, do little more than create new criminals. And in the case of these three subjects, I believe that to be completely true.

Drugs, abortion, and guns are all things that could be considered immoral, but must be legal in a free and open society. Making them illegal will not stop them or stop people from having them, it simply criminalizes all those people.

Case in point, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was illegal to possess Soviet money outside of the USSR, if you were found in possession of it by Soviet Police they would prosecute you. However, at the airport terminal in Russia, there was an international area (technically outside of their borders) that had push carts for people to use, and to get a push cart, you had to put russian money into the machine. Meaning that anyone with a pushcart was a criminal.

We have created a system of laws that do little more than to criminalize a huge portion of society, and keep an equally large portion living in fear and restricted. It also serves to generate a lot of revenue. So now we have an entire generation of people, who were born and raised as criminals, who routinely break a wide variety of laws (jay walking, ripping CDs, smoking pot, owning a 30 round magazine, etceteras) and have come to accept these laws as being little more than a governmental excuse to shake people down for money like common thugs. We have devalued our own justice system to the populace of this country, and we accept it because we hardly realize it.

Rather than banning things willy-nilly, how about we educate people about them, and let the people make their own decisions. I promise you, if we do that, the worst of things will simply go away or at least be seriously marginalized.

Just a thought...

I think your thoughts on the matter are well thought out and make logical sense. These are not wars that can be won...

I would add prostitution to your list but that falls under "etc." I'm sure.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 12-29-2005, 09:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: New Laws Create New Criminals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Something to consider in all future debates about Drugs, Abortion, Guns, etceteras...


Some one once said that new laws, do little more than create new criminals. And in the case of these three subjects, I believe that to be completely true.

Drugs, abortion, and guns are all things that could be considered immoral, but must be legal in a free and open society. Making them illegal will not stop them or stop people from having them, it simply criminalizes all those people.

Case in point, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was illegal to possess Soviet money outside of the USSR, if you were found in possession of it by Soviet Police they would prosecute you. However, at the airport terminal in Russia, there was an international area (technically outside of their borders) that had push carts for people to use, and to get a push cart, you had to put russian money into the machine. Meaning that anyone with a pushcart was a criminal.

We have created a system of laws that do little more than to criminalize a huge portion of society, and keep an equally large portion living in fear and restricted. It also serves to generate a lot of revenue. So now we have an entire generation of people, who were born and raised as criminals, who routinely break a wide variety of laws (jay walking, ripping CDs, smoking pot, owning a 30 round magazine, etceteras) and have come to accept these laws as being little more than a governmental excuse to shake people down for money like common thugs. We have devalued our own justice system to the populace of this country, and we accept it because we hardly realize it.

Rather than banning things willy-nilly, how about we educate people about them, and let the people make their own decisions. I promise you, if we do that, the worst of things will simply go away or at least be seriously marginalized.

Just a thought...

I think your thoughts on the matter are well thought out and make logical sense. These are not wars that can be won...

I would add prostitution to your list but that falls under "etc." I'm sure.
absolutely. It's the oldest proffession, what makes us think we can stop it? The fact remains that in the case of the majority of these 'crimes' we have no desire whatsoever to stop them, infact we want them to continue, the laws are there merely to generate revenue for the government in a way other than raising taxes.
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Old 12-29-2005, 09:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: New Laws Create New Criminals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
The fact remains that in the case of the majority of these 'crimes' we have no desire whatsoever to stop them, infact we want them to continue, the laws are there merely to generate revenue for the government in a way other than raising taxes.

So this is what happens to "Justice" under a capitalist system. Another sad side-effect.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 12-29-2005, 09:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Prostitution?

Wow, isn't America a grand country.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

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You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

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Old 12-30-2005, 11:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Prostitution?

Wow, isn't America a grand country.
It is, and it would be better if we would legalize things that should not be illegal. Only then will we truly be the Land of the Free...
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Prostitution?

Wow, isn't America a grand country.
Isn't it legal in Nevada? or just Vegas anyway.....
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think it's kind of funny that people stigmatize and reward prostitutes (and others in the sex industry for that matter) in our society. We make it illegal for them to ply their trade, but at the same time they are making big money. It's really hippocritical.
Since it is something that is going to go on anyway, it should just be legalized. At least that way, it can be regulated, which will offer protections for all those involved.
From what I understand, where it is legal, the prostitutes are required to be in good health, condom use is required, and they are less likely to suffer from violent attacks and theft by clients or pimps. The clients are less likely to get took for their money too.
I know that prostitution offends the moral values of some, but the issue here is whether or not justice is being served by these laws. Given all the evidence, I'd say not. Justice would be providing a structure for an institution as old as civilization itself.
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: New Laws Create New Criminals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Something to consider in all future debates about Drugs, Abortion, Guns, etceteras...


Some one once said that new laws, do little more than create new criminals. And in the case of these three subjects, I believe that to be completely true.

Drugs, abortion, and guns are all things that could be considered immoral, but must be legal in a free and open society. Making them illegal will not stop them or stop people from having them, it simply criminalizes all those people.

Case in point, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was illegal to possess Soviet money outside of the USSR, if you were found in possession of it by Soviet Police they would prosecute you. However, at the airport terminal in Russia, there was an international area (technically outside of their borders) that had push carts for people to use, and to get a push cart, you had to put russian money into the machine. Meaning that anyone with a pushcart was a criminal.

We have created a system of laws that do little more than to criminalize a huge portion of society, and keep an equally large portion living in fear and restricted. It also serves to generate a lot of revenue. So now we have an entire generation of people, who were born and raised as criminals, who routinely break a wide variety of laws (jay walking, ripping CDs, smoking pot, owning a 30 round magazine, etceteras) and have come to accept these laws as being little more than a governmental excuse to shake people down for money like common thugs. We have devalued our own justice system to the populace of this country, and we accept it because we hardly realize it.

Rather than banning things willy-nilly, how about we educate people about them, and let the people make their own decisions. I promise you, if we do that, the worst of things will simply go away or at least be seriously marginalized.

Just a thought...
Agreed.
But it don't take much to get me by
So just booze me up and get me high
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