Tabris

Qutie correct. I think it will be sorted out anyway. I'm not worried about anything happening though. We still have more freedom than Britain, with their upcoming nation-wide CCTV tracking.

Speaking of that...I'll start a thread on the recent Transportation Department proposition to equip GPS trackers on all cars. Just gotta dig up the article and I'll post it under the Bush Admin topic cuz it's of closest relevance.

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If the opposite of pro is con, what is Congress?

aMFliberal

I'm not sure why I missed this last night, well I can think of a few reasons, but once again if you go to the link I provided above, which is from the Cornell Law School site, you start at Foreign Intelligence Surveillance. Then you go to electronic surveillance because that is what is in question here. I didn't see this before but where it says "§ 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order..." that little symbol and number is a link. Bush authorized the surveillance without court orders so we should go to this link. What we find here is interesting.

"(a)
(1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that—
(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at—
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title;
(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party; and..."

It goes on but I think we've hit what we needed to know. What Tabris said was that a U.S. citizen contacting people in foreign nations, some of them he called "flagged nations" constitutes foreign communications and therefore falls under foreign surveillance laws. However, the subchapters in the U.S. Code clearly state that "there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party."

I'm still failing to see how Bush is not breaking the law.

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sgtdmski

The problem comes with the definitions. Once again words have meaning. This is where the Patriot Act does come into play. Thanks to the Patriot Act, terrorist suspects now fall under the classification of Foreign Agent. This means that anyone providing aid, support, technical knowledge, or money to a terrorist group, who is a citizen of the United States, may be classified as a Foreign Agent.

Therefore, the President with the approval of the Attorney General may then surveil the electronic communications of these parties under the autonomy of FISA.

Furthermore, the Federal Court of Appeals, which is the appealing authority of the courts under FISA, has just ruled that the information gathered during the collection of foreign intelligence, can be used in criminal proceedings. Since this ruling has been made by the Court of Appeals, it would seem that they are upholding the constitionality of the FISA, and further, that they have upheld the definition of Foreign Agent under the Patriot Act. Once again, it seems as if the law is being followed.

dmk

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Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-

tyreay

Let's just make up the laws as we go along. The courts are controlled by this administration and that is what the courts making this decision at this time is for, to make up the rules as we play the game.

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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. ~Richard Armour

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle. ~Alexis de Tocqueville

aMFliberal

Ahh, see I figured it was a little too obvious that he would be directly breaking the law. So this IS a Patriot Act issue. Once again, the Patriot Act has proven that its main purpose is to undermine previously existing powers in the name of protection, just so the government can go around our liberties.

__________________
But it don't take much to get me by
So just booze me up and get me high
Ween

Tabris

Yeah, why not give Bush absolute power then, just for shits? I mean, if we impeach him, we get Cheney as president.

Then he really will have the power to boss around reporters so he can recharge his iPod and continue listening to his 20gb of screaming children.

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If the opposite of pro is con, what is Congress?

hevusa

This must be why he picked him as a back up. No one in hell wants Cheney in there.... just pick the one person more evil than yourself and no one will seek that option.

You mean Iraqi children? Pretty grim

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"There is no such thing as laziness. Laziness is only lack of incentive." Norman Reider, MD

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tyreay

Those two are thick as theives. Let's just call them Bushney.

They both are guilty and should both be impeached, then figure out if war crimes are also warranted!!

__________________
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong. ~Richard Armour

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle. ~Alexis de Tocqueville

Tabris

From all over the world because he likes to keep diversity alive. That's why it takes up all 20gb. One child screaming would only take up like 2mB (at 256kbps), so he's gotta get either:

a) Put more screaming children on it
b) Get longer clips of children screaming.

__________________
If the opposite of pro is con, what is Congress?

aMFliberal

My friend's dad looks exactly like Cheney except a little younger. Just as grumpy though....talk about scary.

__________________
But it don't take much to get me by
So just booze me up and get me high
Ween