State of the Union January 31, 2006 - Page 3

Jaxian · 02-07-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

A plan that puts money back into corporations pockets is not an acceptable plan. It is the opposite of what would be good for our citizens. We need to make sure these large corporations don't get a single penny!

Why not? If investing in stocks brings a very high return on one's money, why would people lose out if their private retirement accounts were invested in stocks? Are you worried about government favoritism of certain businesses? Or perhaps you are worried that big businesses will become too powerful?

Quote:

Then invest in bonds, CD's, or whatever else...

The point is you could EASILY make a higher return investing or putting your money into a bank rather than letting the government take care of your money. Common sense.

Is it? I think that if a government professional invested my money, he could make a lot higher return than I could. I really know very little about investment.

Certainly I'm not going to disagree that our current social security plan is making me less money than I could make on my own. But under our current plan, the government is not investing my money at all. If they were investing my money, they'd do a far better job than I, don't you think?

hevusa · 02-07-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridinhighspeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridinhighspeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxian

Allow me to mold Bush's social security proposal into one I would approve of. Instead of each person paying into his own personal retirement account, Bush might change it so that social security taxes are combined and divided evenly among the everyone's retirement account. Instead of being controlled by the individual holder of the account, it should be controlled by the government. Instead of fully transitioning to individual retirement accounts immediately for people born in 1950 or later, we should begin a slow transition where retirement account tax increases while original social security tax decreases. I imagine, these retirement funds would not need to be micromanaged as individual accounts, but could be maintained on a yearly level or even as one investment fund to be distributed as appropriate. Do you object to these changes?

Thank you for proposing a plan that could possibly fix Social Security. I've looked into plans offered by Democrats and they are a complete joke! My position on Social Security reform:

After researching and analyzing the proposals offered by many politicians, I feel that privatizing Social Security is not such a bad idea. I feel that privatizing Social Security would give people more control of their money when it comes to saving for retirement. Another good thing about your own private account is that it’s your own money the government cannot touch. I understand that some people might fear the risks of investing in the stock market, but if someone diversifies and chooses funds that are somewhat conservative, there is a very small risk of losing your money. Considering that Social Security today has a very little return “Social Security's inflation-adjusted rate of return is only 1.23 percent for an average household of two 30-year-old earners with children in which each parent made just under $26,000 in 1996.” (Beach), you would be better off putting your money into a savings account earning a return close to 3 percent. Anyone who has common sense can definitely see the problem with the Social Security trust fund if a bank is able to offer a higher interest rate. This research has brought me to the conclusion to support the idea of a privatized Social Security system, or at least giving the American people the option to have private accounts.

My article found here:
http://defendingthetruth.com/viewtop...t=1216&start=0

A plan that puts money back into corporations pockets is not an acceptable plan. It is the opposite of what would be good for our citizens. We need to make sure these large corporations don't get a single penny!

Then invest in bonds, CD's, or whatever else...

The point is you could EASILY make a higher return investing or putting your money into a bank rather than letting the government take care of your money. Common sense.

CD's and bonds are often locked in with fees to withdraw. Why not a collective fund that gains the most interest possible and issues funds when necessary to people?

RidinHighSpeeds · 02-07-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxian

Is it? I think that if a government professional invested my money, he could make a lot higher return than I could. I really know very little about investment.

Certainly I'm not going to disagree that our current social security plan is making me less money than I could make on my own. But under our current plan, the government is not investing my money at all. If they were investing my money, they'd do a far better job than I, don't you think?

Then why not have the government invest your money in bonds, CD's, etc. instead of IOU's?? Seems to make sense to me

RidinHighSpeeds · 02-07-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

CD's and bonds are often locked in with fees to withdraw. Why not a collective fund that gains the most interest possible and issues funds when necessary to people?

And you can't collect Social Security until you are 65! If you invest in bonds and CD's at the age of 64...well then that's not too smart

Why not go for a collective fund? Sounds good hev!

I just don't know why people would rather have IOU's over CD's, bonds, and other funds that have their name on it??

onthefence · 02-07-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridinhighspeeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxian

Is it? I think that if a government professional invested my money, he could make a lot higher return than I could. I really know very little about investment.

Certainly I'm not going to disagree that our current social security plan is making me less money than I could make on my own. But under our current plan, the government is not investing my money at all. If they were investing my money, they'd do a far better job than I, don't you think?

Then why not have the government invest your money in bonds, CD's, etc. instead of IOU's?? Seems to make sense to me

That does make sense, and that's the point Uncle Sam needs to do it.
If you don't take that $60 from me every week and invest it for me it won't happen...... I have a wife 3 kids 2 dogs and plenty of things I could spend $60 bucks a week on. Don't fuck me out of it. I like the idea of it going into a private account but uncle sam or big brother somebody has to take it away from me for my own good and make it grow so I don't have to live in a cardboard box eating cat food when I am 70.

Yes social security is broken, but it is better than nothing.

RidinHighSpeeds · 02-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthefence

Then why not have the government invest your money in bonds, CD's, etc. instead of IOU's?? Seems to make sense to me

That does make sense, and that's the point Uncle Sam needs to do it.
If you don't take that $60 from me every week and invest it for me it won't happen...... I have a wife 3 kids 2 dogs and plenty of things I could spend $60 bucks a week on. Don't fuck me out of it. I like the idea of it going into a private account but uncle sam or big brother somebody has to take it away from me for my own good and make it grow so I don't have to live in a cardboard box eating cat food when I am 70.[/quote]

Hear Hear!

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthefence

Yes social security is broken, but it is better than nothing.

It definitely is better than nothing, but this can also be easily improved to benefit all who pay into Social Security.

sgtdmski · 02-08-2006, 04:15 AM

The whole point is to place the money into a private account for retirement. If you have an IRA (401K) or a Roth IRA you cannot withdraw the money from the account without paying the penalty fee for early withdraw, which is around 18%, as well as the taxes on the money.

The same restrictions can be placed upon any other account that is deemed a retirement account, whether it be savings, money market, or CD. Someone's lack responsibility should not be the deciding factor for the rest of us. If you are irresponsible, then you should remain with the current system. Let those of us who wish to get out of the system do so.

For all those doom and gloomers out their you should check this out

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...alveston_x.htm

So it would seem that those individuals who have opted out of Social Security are actually doing quite well. They allowed a voluntary opt out in 1983 for state and local governments. Well it is time that they allow a voluntary opt out for individuals. If you are afraid that you cannot invest your money wisely and not spend it, then you should remain with the current system, for those of us that wish to invest our money, we should be allowed.

dmk

onthefence · 02-08-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

The whole point is to place the money into a private account for retirement. If you have an IRA (401K) or a Roth IRA you cannot withdraw the money from the account without paying the penalty fee for early withdraw, which is around 18%, as well as the taxes on the money.

The same restrictions can be placed upon any other account that is deemed a retirement account, whether it be savings, money market, or CD. Someone's lack responsibility should not be the deciding factor for the rest of us. If you are irresponsible, then you should remain with the current system. Let those of us who wish to get out of the system do so.

For all those doom and gloomers out their you should check this out

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...alveston_x.htm

So it would seem that those individuals who have opted out of Social Security are actually doing quite well. They allowed a voluntary opt out in 1983 for state and local governments. Well it is time that they allow a voluntary opt out for individuals. If you are afraid that you cannot invest your money wisely and not spend it, then you should remain with the current system, for those of us that wish to invest our money, we should be allowed.

dmk

I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to invest how you want. What I am saying is it should be automatic, like a 401k you can pick where the money goes, move it around to different funds, micro manage it til the cows come home..... or set it and forget it. Send a quarterly statment so you can see your money and make sure it is growing and not shrinking.

RidinHighSpeeds · 02-08-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthefence

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

The whole point is to place the money into a private account for retirement. If you have an IRA (401K) or a Roth IRA you cannot withdraw the money from the account without paying the penalty fee for early withdraw, which is around 18%, as well as the taxes on the money.

The same restrictions can be placed upon any other account that is deemed a retirement account, whether it be savings, money market, or CD. Someone's lack responsibility should not be the deciding factor for the rest of us. If you are irresponsible, then you should remain with the current system. Let those of us who wish to get out of the system do so.

For all those doom and gloomers out their you should check this out

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...alveston_x.htm

So it would seem that those individuals who have opted out of Social Security are actually doing quite well. They allowed a voluntary opt out in 1983 for state and local governments. Well it is time that they allow a voluntary opt out for individuals. If you are afraid that you cannot invest your money wisely and not spend it, then you should remain with the current system, for those of us that wish to invest our money, we should be allowed.

dmk

I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to invest how you want. What I am saying is it should be automatic, like a 401k you can pick where the money goes, move it around to different funds, micro manage it til the cows come home..... or set it and forget it. Send a quarterly statment so you can see your money and make sure it is growing and not shrinking.

exactly

Jaxian · 02-08-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridinhighspeeds

Then why not have the government invest your money in bonds, CD's, etc. instead of IOU's?? Seems to make sense to me

Remember that my proposal for social security did involve the government investing money instead of creating these IOU's. The differences between my plan and Bush's plan is that the individual would not have much or any control over how the money is invested, the money put into social security would be divided evenly across everyone instead of being relative to the amount of taxes you pay, and the transition to this system would occur at a different rate to mitigate people having to pay the double-tax for social security.

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