intangible child

Eight United Methodist bishops, other leaders, who spoke out against war with Iraq Oct. 14, 2002?

WASHINGTON (UMNS) -- Eight United Methodist bishops participated in a "Citizen’s Hearing on War with Iraq" on the third of three days of witnessing for peace – often in concert with those of other religious and community leaders – in the nation’s capital city.

By the time Rep. Danny Davis (D-Ill.) convened the hearing on Oct. 11, both chambers of Congress had debated and voted to increase the president’s military powers. That did not stop the bishops or other many speakers at this event that the United Methodist Board of Church and Society helped organize.
http://web.archive.org/web/20021210.../02/oct/470.htm

Why did Bush ignore these men of the cloth? Maybe......

"Welcome to the "grande baille" of the New World Order"
~ George Bush, Sr. (September 11th, 1990)

Sept. 11, 1990 speech
http://www.cryan.com/war/speech/

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Diebold, Hear This: We Won't Rest

Diebold makes voting machines that are used in 37 states, but they provide no verifiable record and lack even basic protection against fraud.
http://scdc.sccs.swarthmore.edu/diebold/
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"There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself." ~ Senator Daniel K. Inouye - Iran Contra Hearings


"If our nation is ever taken over, it will be taken over from within."
~ President James Madison

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” ---James Madison 4th U.S. president (1809 -1817), and one of the founding fathers of this country. (1751- 1836)

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

My posts may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material available in my efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. I believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. For more information please review Title 17, Sec. 107 of the U.S. Code.

hevusa

hear hear!!!


You are a welcome addition to this website.

__________________
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

"There is no such thing as laziness. Laziness is only lack of incentive." Norman Reider, MD

Morality is not contingent on religion to exist. Therefore religion only detracts from the purity of morality.

intangible child

Thanks, but as far as my being in this mess .......... I intend to not be self engulfed but intangible. which can be very hard. My being is to advance the understanding of Reality!
http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/
A reason to be here........

Relayer
Yes


The Gates of Delirium
Anderson/Howe/Moraz/Squire/White

Stand and fight we do consider
Reminded of an inner pact between us
That's seen as we go
And ride there
In motion
To fields in debts of honor
Defending

Stand the marchers soaring talons,
Peaceful lives will not deliver freedom,
Fighting we know,
Destroy oppression
The point to reaction
As leaders look to you
Attacking

Choose and renounce throwing chains to the floor.
Kill or be killing faster sins correct the flow.
Casting giant shadows off vast penetrating force
To alter via the war that seen
As friction spans the spirits wrath ascending (slowly) to redeem.

Wars that shout in screams of anguish,
Power spent passion bespoils our soul receiver,
Surely we know.
In glory
We rise to offer,
Create our freedom,
A word we utter,
A word.

Words cause our banner, victorious our day.
Will silence be promised as violence display?
The curse increased we fight the power
And live by it by day.
Our gods awake in thunderous roars,
And guide the leaders' hand in paths of glory to the cause.

Listen, should we fight forever
Knowing as we do know fear destroys?
Listen, should we leave our children?
Listen, our lives stare in silence;
Help us now.

Listen, your friends have been broken,
They tell us of your poison; now we know.
Kill them, give them as they give us.
Slay them, burn their childrens' laughter
On to hell.

The fist will run, grasp metal to gun.
The spirit sings in crashing tones,
We gain the battle drum.
Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn.
The pen won't stay the demon's wings,
The hour approaches pounding out the Devil's sermon.

Soon, oh soon the light,
Pass within and soothe this endless night
And wait here for you,
Our reason to be here.

Soon, oh soon the time,
All we move to gain will reach and calm;
Our heart is open,
Our reason to be here.

Long ago, set into rhyme.
Soon, oh soon the light,
Ours to shape for all time,
Ours the right;
The sun will lead us,
Our reason to be here.

Soon, oh soon the light,
Ours to shape for all time,
Ours the right;
The sun will lead us,
Our reason to be here.
http://yesworld.com/lyrics/Relayer.html

It's going to happen!
http://www.experiencefestival.com/community/index.php

sgtdmski

I don't know what is worse, selective memory, selective reading or selective quoting. President Bush (41) had a vision of a new world order in which there was global cooperation, much like what the UN seeks to do but fails miserably at doing. During the first gulf war, President Bush did just that, formed a global community that opposed the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. The coalition put together successfully removed Iraq from Kuwait.

Bush did exactly what some many of you are mow complaining that his son did not do, get UN approval. So now because he did that it is thrown in his face because he said a new world order. Make up your mind, either you want the US to have the cooperation and approval of all the other nations or you don't. But quit playing the issue both ways. If the name Bush is concerned, God help us, something must be happening. The reaction is almost voluntary and knee-jerk.

dmk

__________________
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-

intangible child

Prescott Bush & his bankin buddies had a dream of.....a new world order!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

Theys luvs amerika.

foundit66

I'm curious...
Who are you talking to?
Or maybe the question should be who here is trying to have it "both ways"?

Is your response actually something real directed at someone in particular? Invoking specific statements that were made on this message board?

Or are they really more of a diversionary smoke-screen? Talking about a fairly new focus on the subject based on other people's statements?

I personally approved of the war on Iraq regarding the Kuwait situation. President Bush (41) did an excellent job.

The only potential "playing the issue both ways" issue I can see is if somebody decries going to war without UN approval (Bush 43) because there is no UN approval, and then decries going to war after getting UN approval (Bush 41).
And even then, it's not really a conflict in my eyes. It's more of a matter that the person involved just doesn't want to go to war...
And quite frankly, they should then make their case on that.
I would agree that it makes no sense for specific individual(s) to be against something *because* a coin toss came up heads, and then also being against it *because* another coin toss came up tails.
But I seriously have no idea of what *specific individual(s)* you are referencing in your post.

But regardless, the reaction to the situation IS NOT "voluntary and knee-jerk". There are serious issues and concerns here...

The American public was sold a war on Iraq based on claims of WMDs and Saddam having nuclear items. Neither were true.
The American public was sold a war on Iraq based on claims of terroristic threat to the U.S. Never proven, and the basis for that belief is sketchy at best.

Even today, Bush makes some outrageous and unfounded statements regarding our involvement in Iraq being justified along the lines of preventing a threat to the U.S.

These are serious and very real issues. It's not a witch-hunt against Bush.
(Although, it may be for some, that doesn't give a reason to ignore the underlying issues...)
The ISSUES are the focus of the matter. Bush's JUDGMENT is the focus of the matter.

intangible child

Who says I am not under the special protection of God?---Adolf Hitler (aka)