onlyoneplanet

"The question is whether or not it is worth it". Indeed it is!

No, I don't propose that. Don't put words in my mouth. It's in the hands of the consumer, but unfortunately, having a good-tasting, meaty meal every night is more important to some people than the humaneness or the environmental effects of the meat industry.

If people realized the full impact of the industry (and what a negative impact it has), then they wouldn't be buying so much meat, or at least they'd start buying free-range, organic meats.

__________________
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour

Jefferson

City boy. Good grief.

You guys are out of your minds.

onlyoneplanet

Great argument.

By the way, I'm not a city boy. More like a mountain boy.

__________________
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour

Jefferson

Either way, it is OBVIOUS that you know NOTHING about agriculture.

So go ahead and buy your "certified organic" food, even though you have no idea whether it's actually organic or not. Go ahead and eat only vegetables, even though they're probably covered with bacteria.

You're going to die anyway - and probably of cancer. Unless, of course, there is NO cancer anywhere in you family.

onlyoneplanet

You're instigating again.
And thank you for your comments.

__________________
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour

Jefferson

Okay fine, I'm doing whatever you say I'm doing.

I'm also pointing out the absurdity of the far-out vegetarian and organic-only mindset.

You just can't see that.

Dylan

Well, I have a lot to say.

The reason that I mentioned the health benefits of vegitarianism, Jefferson, is because you stick vegitarians in a box that I didn't want to be in. I like to think I'm an informed consumer, and I'm a fan of science. I am pro-GM foods, and a vegitarian. That was my point. I'm not shoving anything down your throat. I didn't say that meat eaters are stupid bastards, or anything like that. On the contrary, you keep saying that vegitarians are stupid and reactionary. I am not stupid and reactionary, or at least, I hope I'm not.

Herbicide has definitely been linked to cancer, and plant disease can't actually harm humans. We're too genetically different. The only thing plant disease does is reduce the number and quality of crops. Ocassionally, it can wipe out an entire group of something. Before 1970-something, people ate a different sort of banana, but it was entirely wiped out by a virus, so we had to switch to another sort of banana. Genetic engineering could have prevented that, and, since the bananas that we ear are extremely genetically similar, it's going to happen again unless we do something. It could take 60 years to develop a genetically diverse banana that tastes good the old way. Or, we could just go to a lab, and fix things. The Hawaiian papaya plantations were saved by genetic engineering.

One of the great things about genetically modifying foods is that it DRAMATICALLY REDUCES the use of pesticides, herbicides, and insecticides. Better an unknown potential danger than a real, definite danger, ne?

I am very sorry about what happened to your son, Jefferson. That must have been terrible. I'm not a parent, but I can't imagine what I would do if something similar happened to me.

I didn't mean to imply that fecal matter on meat was the only way to transmit e. coli. I merely meant that it is a way, and has caused some of the wider outbreaks in the US.

E. coli is generally spread by feces being anywhere they shouldn't be, and having the bacteria come into contact with parts of you where they shouldn't be. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

Jefferson

First of all, our son is fine. He's 20. He's great, and he's doing great. But thanks for your concern!

Now... as to herbicides. You're aware of the Alar Myth, aren't you? That's the kind of stupid hype I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about smart, informed vegetarians like yourself. I have several friends who are just that. They don't make it into some stupid "moral high ground" from which they condescend to everyone.


My main problem is with people who believe and promote really, really stupid things. Unfortunately, we see a LOT of that anymore.

Dylan

For every alar, there's a dozen dioxins.

(Dioxin is actually a family of chemicals, and all of them are proven carcinogens. They're in everything from Agent Orange to Viktor Yushchenko's soup.)

onlyoneplanet

I'm simply living according to my knowledge, and what I know is this: I don't want to bloat myself with preservatives, hormones, and displaced genes, but rather live as naturally and healthily as possible in a consumer society. The meat industry is incredibly harmful towards the environment, it's downright inhumane, and as meat putrefies in the human digestive system, the risk of cancer, heart disease, and other health problems increases (especially with the use of antibiotics and growth promoters), therefor, I will stick to a vegetarian diet.

__________________
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour