Originally Posted by Dylan

That's ironic.

Traditionally, conservatives have been for states' rights, and against federal involvement. It's the way that abortion, segregation, and currently, gay marriage have been kept illegal in America.

Originally Posted by foundit66

Is that a joke/sarcasm?
Are you disputing any of those facts at all?

For a story of this magnitude, virtually any major news organization can be found corroborating/reporting those facts which I previously mentioned...
But, I kind of figured that AP news, Washintgon Post, etc. were sufficiently reliable...


This is in direct contradiction to Bush's earlier statements where he claimed "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

Either people DID anticipate the breach of the levees and Bush's statement was either a lie or an example of incompetence...
Or people DID NOT anticipate the breach... (which we know is not the truth)
You can't have it both ways...


The blame exists at multiple levels, as I previously stated.
From Nagin to the head of FEMA.
And some culpability to Bush for appointing an inept FEMA head...

Lives could have been saved had Nagin done his job properly.
Lives could have been saved had FEMA done its job properly.
And Lives could have been saved had Bush appointed a competent head for FEMA who would have done his job properly...


Once again, you have presumed other people's stance without even bothering to ask.
My partner lived through some severe storms on Hawaii that removed power and communications for extended periods of time.
If you want, I could describe to you how FEMA is SUPPOSED to work. How it has worked under a variety of presidents, democrat and republican, in the past.
How FEMA is SUPPOSED to work REGARDLESS of what political party is at the helm of the White House...

Or, you could actually learn that for yourself, if it were actually an interest for you ...

Or, you could sit back and gripe about how you imagine others would have reacted to a hypothetical scenario. Your argument being what is called a "strawman argument"...
But of course, you know our minds much better than we ourselves....


You are truly a hoot.
We can't have it "both ways"?
One of the ways is how it DID turn out, and the other is how you PREDICT (without any basis) how you think we would have reacted...

You're supplying a strawman argument, and it's rather pointless and mindless.

Tell me Jefferson...
For the REPUBLICANS who are also criticizing FEMA and how the situation turned out, would they have had the same reaction you described?
Would they also have "complain about Bush being an autocratic dictator"?

I'm curious Jefferson.
When I said: "Failures occurred at virtually ALL levels of disaster response. From Mayor Nagin on upwards to Mike Brown. ALL levels demonstrated incompetence.", did that confuse you?
Did you not comprehend from those sentences that I was saying that the "local people" did have "some personal responsibility"?
My point was that in addition to their "personal responsibility", some personal responsibility also exists on the heads of Mike Brown and Bush for the inept response to this natural disaster.

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Right.

So which way to the screaming Bush Haters want it? Micro-management by Federal Agencies, or the need for individuals and individual cities to take individual responsibility?

Do we WANT FEMA to come in and micro-manage EVERY community along the Gulf Coast, and southern Atlantic coastline?

Do we WANT FEMA to come in and micro-manage EVERY community in what is known as Tornado Alley?

Originally Posted by Dylan

Hm...

What I want is for federal aid to be managed correctly, if we're going to have it. FEMA was totally mismanaged. For god's sake, Bush put the former head of the Arabian Horse Association in charge.

I'm not sure whether federal management of disasters or local management of disasters is better. I am sure that the system we have now is crappy.

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Agreed.

But if people expect FEMA to do what was necessary in New Orleans, they have to realize that it would be nothing short of a Federal Agency micro-managing state and local leadership and individuals.

Is that what you want?


For me, no. I'll take care of myself, thank you.

Originally Posted by Dylan

I'm not necissarily opposed to having a strong federal government, as long as it stays out of my private life.

I don't see getting bailed out of a flood/hurricaine/tornado/whatever as part of my private life.

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Isn't it part of your "private life" if a Federal Agent - FEMA or otherwise - comes into your house and says, "You ARE leaving, and you're leaving RIGHT NOW - whether you like it or not."?


Again... I'm not defending FEMA, nor excusing their ineptitude in the New Orleans debacle. But what most people expect them to have done would have been micromanagement. And that is NOT building on the principles of the Constitution.

Originally Posted by Dylan

FEMA wasn't supposed to do that. I was under the impression that most of the disaster was the result of the federal government not paying to fix the levies, and then no one paying for buses so the poor people who don't own cars could get out of town.

I also don't think it's time to quibble about the principles of the Constitution when your home and all of your posessions may be swept away.

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

I personally can't believe Jefferson hasen't been kicked already. Suppressing opinions is one thing, but to allow people to criticize, to name-call, and to just be downright offensive, rude, and intolerant to the entire community using profanity on a regular basis is another.