hevusa

Click on "Katrina: the warnings Bush..."

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/...7394&ch=68276&

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Katczinsky

Interesting yet not surprising. Good find.

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onthefence

I saw this on the news tonight

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hevusa

So where are the Bush supporting republicans in this thread?

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"There is no such thing as laziness. Laziness is only lack of incentive." Norman Reider, MD

Morality is not contingent on religion to exist. Therefore religion only detracts from the purity of morality.

Jefferson

The video PROVES(?) that Bush knew what was going to happen? Hardly!

1. The video is from THE VERY DAY KATRINA HIT LANDFALL.
2. The Associated Press came out Friday Night (3-3-06) and clarified that Bush was simply informed - by the civil engineers - that the levees "could" develop a hole.



So... to all you blind bush bashers, what difference does this make? What was Bush supposed to do less than 24 hours before Katrina hit New Orleans?


How 'bout we talk about who's REALLY to blame for the deaths in New Orleans.
- His name is Mayor Ray Nagin - a poltical novice who was, less than 3 years earlier, worked for the Cox Cable Company.
- Mayor Nagin called for evactuation LESS THAN 24 HOURS BEFORE KATRINA HIT NEW ORLEANS.
- Mayor Nagin provided no organized plan for evacuation, hence the pictures of hundreds of busses sitting flooded in municiple parking lots.
- Mayor Nagin FAILED to stock the SuperDome (a potential "shelter") with water, Army K-Rations and emergency generators.


But none of these facts will matter to all you Bush Haters. You're so busy frothing at the mouth, trying to find justification for your hatred, that you'll never look at any facts anyway.

...and don't forget Galveston, Texas a couple weeks later.

foundit66

Let's get the timeline and issues of concern straight here...

1) "FEMA and Homeland Security forsaw that the Levees could break a full 48 hours before Katrina struck according to two reports."
http://www.wnymedia.net/index.php?op...1013&Itemid=43

2) "WASHINGTON (AP) - In dramatic and sometimes agonizing terms, federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees, put lives at risk in New Orleans' Superdome and overwhelm rescuers, according to confidential video footage."
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8G36U0O1.html

3) "White House deputy chief of staff Joe Hagin, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Brown discussed fears of a levee breach the day the storm hit."
http://www.click2houston.com/news/7588472/detail.html

4) George Bush, September 1, 2005. (After all the above)
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090100915.html

Based one #1, #2, and #3, it seems obvious that #4 shows an example of either Bush lying, or being just plain clueless/incompetent.
(Perhaps Bush should have abbreviated his statement to: "I don't think." )
This has nothing to do with "hating" Bush. It's just a logical conclusion based on the facts on hand...

People KNEW that the levees could break as a result of this storm. Bush WAS BRIEFED that the levees could break as a result of this storm.
And then Bush later turned around and claimed that nobody anticipated the levees breaking.

The issue isn't blaming Bush for the REASON the levees broke. The issue isn't blaming Bush BECAUSE the levees broke. I don't see anybody blaming Bush for the levees breaking.

The issue IS Bush being briefed and given some information that he later claimed nobody had. A sign of either a lie, or just incompetence. (If anybody has another interpretation of this, please feel free to add it to the list...)

If somebody wants to actually dispute these facts and this logical conclusion, feel free to respond...
If it's going to center around rants on "Bush haters", don't even bother...


And in my opinion, Bush's real culpability lies on his "cronyism" technique which put a man COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT AND INCAPABLE of doing the job in charge of FEMA.

Failures occurred at virtually ALL levels of disaster response. From Mayor Nagin on upwards to Mike Brown. ALL levels demonstrated incompetence.

Pointing to Mayor Nagin's culpability, while it is glaring and DOES exist, does not excuse the fact that Bush put a man into the position of heading FEMA who HAD NO BUSINESS being in that position.

Again, this has nothing to do with "hating" Bush. These issues have been raised by democrats and republicans alike.

Trying to respond to these charges by blindly frothing at the mouth with rants about "Bush Haters" does not address these failures...
It only indulges them...

foundit66

You had to ask...
:P :P

Jefferson

You need more reliable sites to cite.

Nonetheless... Bush was told - by civil engineers - that the levees COULD develop a hole. They COULD.

FEMA failed - AFTER the hurricane.

Nagin failed BEFORE the Hurricane. As a direct result, hundreds of people lost their lives.


FEMA failed to respond.
Nagin failed to plan and execute.



In addition, if FEMA (a federal government entity) simply came in and "took over" everything in a coastal city, the whining-assed liberals would be the FIRST to complain about Bush being an autocratic dictator - and about how Bush was violating invidivual and state's rights.

You can't have it both ways. Either you have micro-management from the Federal Government, or local people are going to have to take some personal responsibility.

Dylan

That's ironic.

Traditionally, conservatives have been for states' rights, and against federal involvement. It's the way that abortion, segregation, and currently, gay marriage have been kept illegal in America.

foundit66

Is that a joke/sarcasm?
Are you disputing any of those facts at all?

For a story of this magnitude, virtually any major news organization can be found corroborating/reporting those facts which I previously mentioned...
But, I kind of figured that AP news, Washintgon Post, etc. were sufficiently reliable...


This is in direct contradiction to Bush's earlier statements where he claimed "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

Either people DID anticipate the breach of the levees and Bush's statement was either a lie or an example of incompetence...
Or people DID NOT anticipate the breach... (which we know is not the truth)
You can't have it both ways...


The blame exists at multiple levels, as I previously stated.
From Nagin to the head of FEMA.
And some culpability to Bush for appointing an inept FEMA head...

Lives could have been saved had Nagin done his job properly.
Lives could have been saved had FEMA done its job properly.
And Lives could have been saved had Bush appointed a competent head for FEMA who would have done his job properly...


Once again, you have presumed other people's stance without even bothering to ask.
My partner lived through some severe storms on Hawaii that removed power and communications for extended periods of time.
If you want, I could describe to you how FEMA is SUPPOSED to work. How it has worked under a variety of presidents, democrat and republican, in the past.
How FEMA is SUPPOSED to work REGARDLESS of what political party is at the helm of the White House...

Or, you could actually learn that for yourself, if it were actually an interest for you ...

Or, you could sit back and gripe about how you imagine others would have reacted to a hypothetical scenario. Your argument being what is called a "strawman argument"...
But of course, you know our minds much better than we ourselves....


You are truly a hoot.
We can't have it "both ways"?
One of the ways is how it DID turn out, and the other is how you PREDICT (without any basis) how you think we would have reacted...

You're supplying a strawman argument, and it's rather pointless and mindless.

Tell me Jefferson...
For the REPUBLICANS who are also criticizing FEMA and how the situation turned out, would they have had the same reaction you described?
Would they also have "complain about Bush being an autocratic dictator"?

I'm curious Jefferson.
When I said: "Failures occurred at virtually ALL levels of disaster response. From Mayor Nagin on upwards to Mike Brown. ALL levels demonstrated incompetence.", did that confuse you?
Did you not comprehend from those sentences that I was saying that the "local people" did have "some personal responsibility"?
My point was that in addition to their "personal responsibility", some personal responsibility also exists on the heads of Mike Brown and Bush for the inept response to this natural disaster.