The New Judicial God: Tolerance

garysher · 01-17-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuma

Ahem, the third president was Thomas Jefferson.

OK Adams was the second I'll give you 5 points for that.

Still doesn't change what he said about the Constitution though

Jefferson's phrase in the declaration of independence, "...all men are created equal..." truly defines the foundation of the United States for me. A christian american is equal to any other american.

unless he was a black christian.............

fxashun · 01-17-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

unless he was a black christian.............

Goddam that's funny.

OhDear · 01-17-2008, 08:10 PM

Well I don't rightly know where to post this. But you know I could put it here or under religion or under military. But since there is a discussion here springing up from the idea of whether or not TOLERANCE is a good thing, looking now at what our nation was founded on, I decided to post it here.

Because though many can say and say it truly so, that our nation was founded on certain religious freedoms, certain spiritual ideas and certain concepts that cannot be pinned down as material or substantial apart from what each one concludes these concepts mean by a kind of faith...well, me, I say that our nation was founded on the greatness of humanity.

And though for me personally I find that greatness best expressed, best found in Jesus and my faith in Him, I think it is worthy to embrace others in the brotherhood of man for finding their own greatness and the greatness of others with a different plumbline.

So for them I share this image:

OhDear

fxashun · 01-17-2008, 08:20 PM

I think this country was founded on thievery, deception, genocide, and slavery. Any founding fathers that can crap out one side of their mouths "all men are created equal", and on the other side advocate counting the men they imported from abroad as less than a man is founded on rather shaky ground IMHO. But that's just me.

OhDear · 01-17-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I think this country was founded on thievery, deception, genocide, and slavery. Any founding fathers that can crap out one side of their mouths "all men are created equal", and on the other side advocate counting the men they imported from abroad as less than a man is founded on rather shaky ground IMHO. But that's just me.

I totally agree with you on that Fx. But those men were not what made this country endure. No matter what place they seem to take in the history books. Our country has endured because of the human spirit of those who helped their neighbors, who had barn-raisings, who sacrificed personal comfort and material gain for the betterment of the community, for those in need. Those who truly had valiant acts of service and courageous hearts. Those who demonstrated compassion on others and had a vision that exceeded their own prosperity. Those who were generational in their vision, thinking beyond their personal here and now.

Strength of thought, word and deed founded in love for one another.

OhDear

fxashun · 01-17-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

I totally agree with you on that Fx. But those men were not what made this country endure. No matter what place they seem to take in the history books. Our country has endured because of the human spirit of those who helped their neighbors, who had barn-raisings, who sacrificed personal comfort and material gain for the betterment of the community, for those in need. Those who truly had valiant acts of service and courageous hearts. Those who demonstrated compassion on others and had a vision that exceeded their own prosperity. Those who were generational in their vision, thinking beyond their personal here and now.

Strength of thought, word and deed founded in love for one another.

OhDear

Of course clearing the land with smallpox and guns, getting over the prejudice and racism against even different "models" of white people, and the fact that they had to build bigger ships to import more white people because for a while there, there were almost "too many" black folk here....I'm sorry, this country has serious issues. If this country was a baby, in hindsight it would be pretty accurate to say it had a birth defect.

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-17-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

You're right about tolerance, just ask the Catholic church. I suppose it's better to be a murderer, then to be tolerant. Most europeans were Christian back then, mostly because they didn't have a choice. For a very long time, if you went against the Catholic doctrine, you were dead or imprisoned.

But yes, the founders were of Christian beliefs, but not the beliefs that fundamentals or evangelicals follow today. And yes, the first settlers were very religious, that's why they came here, nobody else wanted to put up with their freaking crazy ideas.

Appreciate the interaction. You are stating opinions to which you have every right but they are not facts. Humorous yes but not accurate.

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-17-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

UntwistedTruth

I think the greatest immorality that exists in the world today stems from people being dishonest about knowing if there is a god or not, and what said God likes and dislikes.

If you could lie and say you know there is a God, when not a single person in history has been able to provide objective evidence to support this theory, then there is no limit to your dishonesty and jaded world views in my eyes. There will never be peace and justice when people can lie about such a sacred topic.

The founding fathers were smart enough to know that religion and government needed to be separated, and for good reason. That is the only truly interesting point in regards to the founding father's faith.

Irrefutable Proof of God or NO God: Agree. That's why they call it faith.

"Only interesting point" that "religion and government needed to be separated" is not the whole picture. So called "separation of church and state" is a modern Supreme Court construction which has grown even farther from it's orginal text. It is not in the Constitution.

First: True enough, 1st Amendment says the state shall form no religion (separation). But in the very next sentence it enumerates safeguards for the practice of religion.

At the time of the Constitution's implementation, this did not apply to individual states but only the federal government. That's why the orginal states could and did use tax dollars to support Christian churches.

Second: Our laws and Constitution are based on Christian doctrine--I would say that makes our Founder's faith historically very significant.

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-17-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

First UT, I AM a Christian. Though I do in part, agree with Hevusa. I do not believe that we can have a political integrity and make our belief a "fact" to base government on, without taking away the "religious freedom" that this nation was said to offer all.

And here is an interesting question I found on the world wide web.

OhDear

Please educate me as to how a Christian perspective does not include belief in Hell, that specific word being used at least 50 times in KJV, 14 times in NT of NIV, and 13 times in NT of American Standard, and also that Christians have no obligation to fufill either the Great Command or Commission.

As to a "fact" to base government on, not quite sure of your point. If you mean Theocracy, I'm with you. If you mean base our government on the laws of man...well, we've been there, done that: Communism, Fascism, dictatorships of all stripes, etc. Laws based on the true teaching of Christ seem to work pretty well whether we can prove God exists or not.

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-17-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Neither

Falwell refers to Judeo-Christian values, and Washington to the Christian religion.

Both are correct.

Excellent. Good catch.