The New Judicial God: Tolerance

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-17-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I think this country was founded on thievery, deception, genocide, and slavery. Any founding fathers that can crap out one side of their mouths "all men are created equal", and on the other side advocate counting the men they imported from abroad as less than a man is founded on rather shaky ground IMHO. But that's just me.

Quite right...never confuse Christians as being the same thing as Christianity.

waitingtables · 01-18-2008, 09:43 AM

Simply because the framers in the 18th century were white men of the Christian faith, does not mean that those are the only concepts accepted by a people in the 21st century, or that we must continue to believe exactly as they did. In this century, women and minorities are supposedly equal, and people are allowed to practice whatever religion they believe in freely. That does not mean that we should only accept what faith the founders held in common at the time this country was established. Rule is rule, and those men ruled over the rest of society, and while espousing the equality of all, subjugated and repressed an entire gender, and at least three races. Clearly their logic and reasoning had not reached the level that we have today, but they did provide us with ability to gain the freedoms we have now, and that was a very good thing.

fxashun · 01-18-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Simply because the framers in the 18th century were white men of the Christian faith, does not mean that those are the only concepts accepted by a people in the 21st century, or that we must continue to believe exactly as they did. In this century, women and minorities are supposedly equal, and people are allowed to practice whatever religion they believe in freely. That does not mean that we should only accept what faith the founders held in common at the time this country was established. Rule is rule, and those men ruled over the rest of society, and while espousing the equality of all, subjugated and repressed an entire gender, and at least three races. Clearly their logic and reasoning had not reached the level that we have today, but they did provide us with ability to gain the freedoms we have now, and that was a very good thing.

Any time you decide to populate a new land that already has occupants, you are gonna have issues. The subjugation of the Indians was required. Do you think we would willingly allow Mexico to take over the U.S.? They have to do it slowly from within. Like they are doing. LOL.

waitingtables · 01-18-2008, 10:07 AM

But my point is that we shouldn't have to argue about what the white overlords believed in the times here that everyone was oppressed. Although they didn't know better in their own time, they made it possible through the wording of the Constitution, for the eventual freeing of the rest of society.They didn't like being oppressed by England. And so you see the throwing off of the yoke of oppression was what they based their reasoning for the Revolution on. And so that reasoning eventually came round full circle to include women and minorities. Even though it took a long time for the people to see it, the concepts were present in the document. I just mean that the ruling class and much of society were of the Christian faith at the time of our establishment, and that is what makes some people think that it must be "Christian" values that we hold superior now. I think the values that should be held as superior to others are the ones that allow us to advance through history as the best country in the world. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness, with equality for all, and for the freedom necessary to better ourselves and our country.

fxashun · 01-18-2008, 11:55 AM

I tend to think they knew what they were doing was wrong. If we decide to migrate to another planet, if there is life already there that is "in the way", we are gonna do what we must to guarantee our own survival. And if we are able to enslave them, my money is going with our intergalactic settlers making use of the free labor.

It's pretty much the plot of any Alien Invader type movie.

hevusa · 01-18-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntwistedTruth.com

Irrefutable Proof of God or NO God: Agree. That's why they call it faith.

"Only interesting point" that "religion and government needed to be separated" is not the whole picture. So called "separation of church and state" is a modern Supreme Court construction which has grown even farther from it's orginal text. It is not in the Constitution.

First: True enough, 1st Amendment says the state shall form no religion (separation). But in the very next sentence it enumerates safeguards for the practice of religion.

At the time of the Constitution's implementation, this did not apply to individual states but only the federal government. That's why the orginal states could and did use tax dollars to support Christian churches.

Second: Our laws and Constitution are based on Christian doctrine--I would say that makes our Founder's faith historically very significant.

Our government can't represent or favor any particular religion and it can't prevent you from picking any one you desire (or none at all). Sounds wise to me... unless you want your kids to be forced into being non-theists (which is the fastest growing demographic in the world).

garysher · 01-18-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

But my point is that we shouldn't have to argue about what the white overlords believed in the times here that everyone was oppressed. Although they didn't know better in their own time, they made it possible through the wording of the Constitution, for the eventual freeing of the rest of society.They didn't like being oppressed by England.

How were they being "oppressed by England"?

Were they also being oppressed by Wales, Scotland and Ireland?

garysher · 01-18-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Our government can't represent or favor any particular religion and it can't prevent you from picking any one you desire (or none at all). Sounds wise to me... unless you want your kids to be forced into being non-theists (which is the fastest growing demographic in the world).

Is there a difference between a non-theist and an atheist?

BTW you're going to hate this but your unsubstantiated statement about the growth of "non-theists" fulfills yet another Biblical prophecy!

2 Peter 3:3

knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
ASV

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-18-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

I think the values that should be held as superior to others are the ones that allow us to advance through history as the best country in the world. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness, with equality for all, and for the freedom necessary to better ourselves and our country.

Very intelligent post. My original point is that the Christian principals of our Founders have made this nation the freest, most prosperous, longest continuing democracy in recorded history.

Under the weaponization of Tolerance, those principals are now being attacked as if they haven't worked...but nothing as good is offered in their place.

Somebody once said something like "democracy is a messy form of government...it's just better than anything else we've tried." The reality is that our Constitution has worked better than any other known but some judges now want to make it a 'living breathing document' subject to the latest 'enlightened' political thinking.

UntwistedTruth.com · 01-18-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Our government can't represent or favor any particular religion and it can't prevent you from picking any one you desire (or none at all). Sounds wise to me... unless you want your kids to be forced into being non-theists (which is the fastest growing demographic in the world).

Cannot disagree with one iota of your thinking. In fact, my original post that posited that Tolerance has been weaponized and adopted like a secular god, implies just what you stated: kids are being forced via politically correct education to adopt/respect values and behavior contrary to their religious beliefs.

Schools actually sponsor gay pride days for instance while simultaneously prohibiting criticism from students who disagree and going so far as labeling such freedom of expression or freedom of religious belief as hate speech. The god of Tolerance is used to justify such actions.

Omitted from the thought process is that freedom of speech and religous freedom are specifically enumerated in the constitution while "gay rights" are a construct at best...yet almost without fail, the specific concrete rights are trumped by rights that have been 'construed' in incremental decisions.