The New Judicial God: Tolerance

garysher · 01-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Trust me gary, your not missing out on anything.

LOL

So you don't think it's worth starting a revolution??

waitingtables · 01-30-2008, 05:09 PM

Gary, this country was not started by perfect men, but they were progressive enough in their thinking that the document that they created, is able to change with the times, and allow for those changes. I often remark that the founders were living the way that many lived in those times, owning slaves, not allowing women equal protection under the law, etc. But they were different than anything up until their time. And they changed the world forever. Our system is still evolving, though I must say that we have suffered some serious setbacks here. I only hope we can change that and get back onto the right track.

garysher · 01-30-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Gary, this country was not started by perfect men, but they were progressive enough in their thinking that the document that they created, is able to change with the times, and allow for those changes.

That's quite a large get-out isn't it??

I often remark that the founders were living the way that many lived in those times, owning slaves, not allowing women equal protection under the law, etc. But they were different than anything up until their time.

Actually the Age of Enlightenment had been progressing in Europe for a long time prior to 1776

And they changed the world forever. Our system is still evolving, though I must say that we have suffered some serious setbacks here. I only hope we can change that and get back onto the right track.

It's a great country but so many Americans don't have a clue about their own history or how life in other countries compares.

Maybe that's a good thing

waitingtables · 01-31-2008, 09:01 AM

Most wouldn't accept the idea that it was truly Masonic ideals that our founders held in common. A belief in a God of some kind, and fraternity of character, and a new world order existed in their philosophies of the best way to build this nation. No, they weren't enlightened enough to achieve equality for all over a few short years, and not all people held the same Masonic ideals as some of the founders. But they were not hardcore dogmatics that some present day Americans would like people to think they were. And they weren't the opposite of that either, thinking everyone was really equal, just mostly white men, but there were some who were abolitionists from the start. Ever heard of Thomas Paine?

garysher · 01-31-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Most wouldn't accept the idea that it was truly Masonic ideals that our founders held in common. A belief in a God of some kind, and fraternity of character, and a new world order existed in their philosophies of the best way to build this nation. No, they weren't enlightened enough to achieve equality for all over a few short years, and not all people held the same Masonic ideals as some of the founders. But they were not hardcore dogmatics that some present day Americans would like people to think they were. And they weren't the opposite of that either, thinking everyone was really equal, just mostly white men, but there were some who were abolitionists from the start. Ever heard of Thomas Paine?

None of that excuses the fact that guys like Washington and Jefferson owned many slaves and refused even to grant them freedom in their wills!

They also believed that only white male landowners deserved to vote.

Neither flaw applied to the British politicians who you claim were their "oppressors" (but decline to explain why).

As self-proclaimed disciples of equality their hypocrisy could not be more pronounced.

waitingtables · 02-05-2008, 10:14 AM

Are you seriously trying to say that a monarchy isn't or can't be oppressive towards it subjects? I think history has proven my point already. And you are right about some of our founders. They were really only concerned about the landed gentry's rights, but that is what led to some more enlightened thinking and caused us to evolve to the point we are at today. The Constitution has allowed for those, racist, sexist, and classist views to be brought down some, into more equal positions for all. We are far from perfect, but we have come a long way, and still have a long way to go.

pensacola_niceman · 02-05-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

None of that excuses the fact that guys like Washington and Jefferson owned many slaves and refused even to grant them freedom in their wills!

They also believed that only white male landowners deserved to vote.

Neither flaw applied to the British politicians who you claim were their "oppressors" (but decline to explain why).

As self-proclaimed disciples of equality their hypocrisy could not be more pronounced.

It's too bad the British have turned away from their oppressive ways. There are so many countries that have turned into absolute shitholes since becoming independent from Britain. A bloody shame you Brits lost your balls and took so much of the world with it.

garysher · 02-05-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman

It's too bad the British have turned away from their oppressive ways. There are so many countries that have turned into absolute shitholes since becoming independent from Britain. A bloody shame you Brits lost your balls and took so much of the world with it.

Ironic - they spent centuries trying to get rid of us, and as soon as we left they all moved to Britain!

waitingtables · 02-05-2008, 12:53 PM

Yeah, except for the Irish. Must be Stockholm syndrome.

garysher · 02-05-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

Yeah, except for the Irish. Must be Stockholm syndrome.

It's true for the Irish too.

As soon as they got independence in 1922 they started moving to the mainland.

Today there are 6m Irish in the UK vs 3.5 m in Ireland.

And in WW2 200,000 Irishmen signed up to join the British army - voluntarily.

Brits and Irish are much closer than you may think - don't believe everything the "Irish Americans" tell you!