alias

The piece of shit made numerous threats against me and my family and the cops could do nothing until he actually carried it out. I aint waiting. I made a pre-emptive strike by driving my pickup across his property and crushing a few things. Then we found out from the feed store owner that he was buying iodine by the gallon which is a meth product. He was on probation for attempted murder and robberies in Alaska after serving about 12 years or so of 20. After the bust, he had to serve his 6 years for a meth lab and finish his other sentence. He mother protectd him every time there was an altercation. After the bust, we all got together and harrassed the crap out of her and her boyfriend until she couldn't take it no more and sold. That is how neighborhoods should work together. The cops aint gonna do shit until something happens.

foundit66

I'm glad it all worked out, and I think you realize that it shouldn't have had to go down like that.

Hopefully there was also some neighborhood action (political in nature) to ensure that the police actually do their job and not just ignore crap like this...

__________________
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher

foundit66

Those who died defending this country did not die for a piece of cloth. That is true.
(And on another note, I refer your line of arguing here back to the "Ann Coulter" statements about how liberals love to pick icons that are hard to attack. Like YOU RIGHT HERE picking dead soldiers as an icon to justify preventing flag burning. That must make you a liberal then, eh?
Or maybe just a hypocrite...)

You ever think that some of those people who died may have died so that people could have the freedom to burn a piece of cloth in protest?

__________________
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher

thenewnoise

I am glad that it worked out for you and that you got rid of a meth lab. I am also glad that he is back behind bars where he belongs. But I still think it is a bad idea to take the law into your own hands. I've known some meth heads who would quickly shoot some guy driving around in a truck destroying their property. Also you can run into some legal problems of your own. But again, I am glad it all work out well.

__________________
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

thenewnoise

If I decided to burn a flag and a veteran decided to punch me, I would happily sue him for battery. Then I would burn a flag all the way to the bank to deposit a nice settlement.

__________________
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

Jaxian

Let me start by making sure everyone knows what a freedom is. A freedom is anything someone can do. Both burning the flag and same-sex marriage are freedoms. Murder is a freedom. Voting is a freedom. Speaking is a freedom. Not every freedom should be allowed, but anyone who opposes flag burning is opposing a freedom, and there should be no question about that by anyone.

Burning the flag hurts no one. Anyone who would punch a flag burner is causing injurty to someone else, when that other person has caused no injury to you or anyone else.

If you deny someone the right to burn the flag, you deny that person the right to express his opinion about the country using his own property in a fashion which hurts no one. Why do you deny it? Because you find it insulting? Is that it?

If you think flag burning should be banned, then come out and say it: you aren't a fan of freedom, unless that freedom pleases you. Someone else can do what he wants only so long as you give it your stamp of approval. Anything that annoys you gets banned. Anything that insults you gets banned. You do not believe freedoms are held by the people, but that they are privledges to be granted only if they meet your approval. You care more about forcing people to be patriotic than about allowing them to have any belief without punishment. You would put a man in jail for hurting nothing more than his own property.

Or if you disagree, then explain it. Don't pick out a single one of my sentences and pick at it, answer these questions: how can you call yourself a supporter freedom when you believe burning the flag should be banned? And when do you believe a freedom should be banned?

__________________
-Jaxian

Jefferson

Should a 25-year old guy be allowed to have sex with a 14-year old girl - provided she consents and wants to engage in the act? Because that is, after all, a FREEDOM.

onthefence

you said it yourself

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alias

I live in a very rural area. We are still kinda like the old days when people took matters into their own hands. He's in jail and his mother sold to a nice family with kids who are adorable next to my property.

Jaxian

I did say that, but I also explained when a freedom should be allowed and when it should not. The only time we should ever deny a freedom is if it causes harm to someone else. This premise was originally proposed by Thomas Jefferson, who said this:

Flag burning does not cause injury to anyone else. It is one person using his property as he sees fit. He may be expressing his hatred of the nation and the military, he may be burning it for heat, he may be performing a scentific experiment on the fabric the flag is made of, or he may just feel like burning it. It's his business, not yours and not mine.

As I said, not all freedoms should be allowed, but we should only not allow them if they are harmful to someone else.

If a man puts poison into my food, and I eat the food thinking it is safe, the man who put the poison in my food is still at fault for engaging in a freedom that might harm me because of my ignorance. You describe a similar situation, where it is not okay for someone to abuse the ignorance of a 14-year-old. The 14-year-old might not approve of sex after being more knowledgable.

However, there is at least some case to be made against my stance, for in denying the freedom to have sex with a minor, I might sometimes be denying a freedom which is harmless. In my defence, many people do not think having sex with a minor is ever harmless, so I'll have to wait for someone who claims otherwise to debate me on this one.

So my questions still remain: First, how can you call yourself a supporter freedom when you believe burning the flag should be banned? I think that someone who opposes flag burning has decided only freedoms he deems proper will be allowed. He doesn't think people should be truly free; he thinks that people should only be allowed to do the things that he approves of. In the same fashion, a king might grant people freedoms that he deems fit for his own nation. In a free nation, however, even annoying people are allowed freedom. People should be allowed to choose their own lives without being forced to live as someone else thinks they should, so long as they aren't denying anyone else's freedom in the process. So I ask again: how can you call yourself a supporter freedom when you believe burning the flag should be banned?

Second, I will only ban a freedom if it harms someone else, if it interferes with someone else's freedom. Flag burning does not harm anyone else, so you must disagree with me. When do you believe a freedom should be banned?

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-Jaxian