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Branches of Government Debate topics of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of Government.

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Old 07-31-2006, 04:47 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
...

HELLO, LIBERTARIANS ARE RIGHT WINGERS, HELLO!!?!?

My god, you're the densest person ever...

Socialists are the ones who want the government to micromanage everything. I want small government, and I want that government to stay the hell away from me. That's real conservatism. I don't trust the government. As Ronald Reagan said, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are 'we're from the government, and we're here to help.'"

I don't want the government to have that kind of power, because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You give the government power like that, and it's only a matter of time before they hurt us with it.
I want the government to do whatever it takes to protect me and my family. I don't care if someone overhears my talking to my friend about a fishing trip while they are trolling for terrorist conversations. I could care less. I am a law-abiding citizen. I am not worried about my government abusing me at all compard to terrorists wanting to kill my family any way they can. The power we are talking about is the power to protect you, not to have power over you. The government is fighting a war, they are not in the business of spying on citizens to know their personal business unless their business is to kill Americans. That's just nonsense to think otherwise.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:08 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I want the government to do whatever it takes to protect me and my family. I don't care if someone overhears my talking to my friend about a fishing trip while they are trolling for terrorist conversations. I could care less. I am a law-abiding citizen. I am not worried about my government abusing me at all compard to terrorists wanting to kill my family any way they can. The power we are talking about is the power to protect you, not to have power over you. The government is fighting a war, they are not in the business of spying on citizens to know their personal business unless their business is to kill Americans. That's just nonsense to think otherwise.
I am not going to surrender my constitutionally guaranteed rights just because the government says that it wants to make me safe. Spying on me and on my countrymen isn't going to make me safe.
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:02 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dylan
I am not going to surrender my constitutionally guaranteed rights just because the government says that it wants to make me safe. Spying on me and on my countrymen isn't going to make me safe.
Okay, here we go again......what constitutional rights have you surrendered?
Old 07-31-2006, 07:19 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alias
Okay, here we go again......what constitutional rights have you surrendered?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

According to the Patriot Act, I can't complain about the Patriot Act if I am wronged by it. There goes my right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Also, under the Patriot Act, a person can be arrested based on what they say, and any other factor, like skin color, political affiliation, or religion. So, there goes freedom of speech and assembly.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Well, apparently that whole amendment is out the window. The government doesn't need a reason anymore.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Patriot Act is a clear violation of the due process clause. In addition, the Patriot Act allows for the death penalty without a grand jury, so the Fifth Amendment is basically out the window.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Do I even have to say anything about this one?

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There's that "due process of law" thing again...

Well?
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:46 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

According to the Patriot Act, I can't complain about the Patriot Act if I am wronged by it. There goes my right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Also, under the Patriot Act, a person can be arrested based on what they say, and any other factor, like skin color, political affiliation, or religion. So, there goes freedom of speech and assembly.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Well, apparently that whole amendment is out the window. The government doesn't need a reason anymore.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The Patriot Act is a clear violation of the due process clause. In addition, the Patriot Act allows for the death penalty without a grand jury, so the Fifth Amendment is basically out the window.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Do I even have to say anything about this one?

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There's that "due process of law" thing again...

Well?
Okay, now we know you know how to copy and paste the constitution and the patriot act. Now what I would like is for you to be specific and tell us exactly which constitutional right you have lost. I read a lot of "if this happens" or such, but I have yet seen you produce an instance of what you have said happening. Can you show us an example?

Last edited by alias; 07-31-2006 at 08:48 PM.
Old 07-31-2006, 09:20 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Okay, now we know you know how to copy and paste the constitution and the patriot act. Now what I would like is for you to be specific and tell us exactly which constitutional right you have lost. I read a lot of "if this happens" or such, but I have yet seen you produce an instance of what you have said happening. Can you show us an example?

... I did. Hell, I even used brevity.

Why don't you actually read what I wrote?
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:29 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
... I did. Hell, I even used brevity.

Why don't you actually read what I wrote?
When did it happen? Who were the witnesses? What charge was filed against you?
Old 08-01-2006, 02:43 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
When did it happen? Who were the witnesses? What charge was filed against you?
The laws apply to everyone, not just me.
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Old 08-01-2006, 02:48 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Alias, you seem to be asking for specific individual cases of violations of the law via the PATRIOT Act. What Dylan has done was point out exactly how the PATRIOT Act gives authorities the ability to violate the law under the Constitution. It is therefore unnecessary to point out individual violations because those are different cases. But if you so want an individual case than take the more well-known case of Sherman Austin.
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Old 08-01-2006, 04:29 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
The laws apply to everyone, not just me.
Oh, I see. In other words, you don't know of any cases. You're just hollering fire in a crowded theater.
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