Defending the Truth

Thanks...I think free speech is very important, even if it means we see things that offend us. I think if anything, the site of someone burning the flag should make you fly yours higher and prouder. But it's up to you cause that's what free speech is all about.

On a tangent topic, I can understand why people who are pissed off at America will burn the flag as a sign of their anger...
I may not agree with their sentiment, but I understand their actions based on their opinions and motivations.

But why the heck do people who LOVE America put the flag on door-mats, or other areas where it will be stepped on by our feet?





I'm pretty positive that GW didn't put that flag on the floor.
I'm also pretty positive that GW was asked by some photographer to do what we see in the photos.

But to me, the image of a president standing on the American flag is just plain disturbing. Anybody doing that is disturbing.
I would say the people involved here don't share my sentiment.

Very disturbing and annoying. I agree the American Flag (or any Nations flag to be clear) does not belong on a door mat!!!!

Using the flag as a door mat is no different than burning it IMHO.

But the thing is, is that Bush willingly and knowingly walks on it. I don't think his intentions were sinister; but perhaps its a metaphor for his asininity; or perhaps better yet, his obtuse insensitivity, and a symbol that really he doesn't care, but he just sees it as an opportunity to bring up the poll numbers and get support for a war the American people aren't buying anymore.

Just raise it the patriotic way!



"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume I, "Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum,of Springfield, Illinois (January 27, 183, p. 109.

"If our nation is ever taken over, it will be taken over from within." ~ President James Madison

President Bush's "Bring Them On" Picture Album: Page 1

Bring Them On? Bring Them Home!
Bring Them On? Bring Them Home!

Got you in mind, tadpole!

Those pictures are indeed disturbing to look at...

When I look at those pictures, I see people standing on a floormat. The mat in those pictures was dyed red, white and blue in certain areas, but so what? The color of an object makes it sacred? I don't care what colors the thing is; it's still just a floormat.

Of course I believe that everyone should have the freedom to step on whatever doormats they want. Heck, Bush should be able to use the American flag as a dartboard, if he wants. If Bush burned the flag, well that's his property, not mine.

But Bush isn't even trying to disrespect the flag. He isn't burning it. He isn't using it as a dartboard. Instead, the flag in those pictures is not only intended to show respect for the flag, it is intended to honor 9-11. These pictures are not evidence that Bush secretly disrespects America: they're evidence that he respects it.

So exactly what is so disturbing? Is something bad going to happen because Bush stepped on this floormat? Are people going to die? Will freedoms be lost? Will innocent men be imprisoned? No, none of that will happen.

It would be far more disturbing to see pictures of Bush signing certain bills into law. There are plenty of good reasons to criticize Bush, and there are plenty of images that truly should be causing us to get disturbed. There's no need to make a big deal out of a floormat.

We agree that none of those things will happen.

Try putting down a clean towel, putting on some clean socks (no shoes), and then put your mother's wedding dress down on the clean towel and step delicately, but fully, stand on the wedding dress.
Then ask her these questions regarding her reaction...

Let me know how that goes...

If I stepped on my mom's wedding dress, I would be taking her property, to which she has attached sentimental value, and intentionally disrespecting it. This is not what Bush is doing. Bush isn't taking your property and using it in a fashion you don't approve of, and he isn't disrespecting anything.

To mimic what Bush is doing, let's imagine this situation:

Prior to my friend's wedding, I take a picture of the wedding dress. I later get that picture copied onto a doormat with the caption, "Jim and Julie's wedding, forever in our hearts...". Then some woman I've never met sees that the image on my doormat looks just like her wedding dress, and I'm standing on that picture. She then gets angry because I'm standing on an image that looks just like her wedding dress.

You see, Bush isn't pulling your flag off of the pole and standing on it. He isn't even standing on a flag at all. He's standing on a floormat, and the purpose of a floormat is to be stood on. Who cares that the floormat is colored to look like a flag? The intention isn't to show disrespect to anything: quite the opposite.

1) If your mother had given you her wedding dress first, as a present, do you think her reaction would be any different?
Seriously now. Her reaction WOULD NOT center around the fact that the dress was "hers", but rather on what it MEANS to her...
2) "attached sentimental value"?
Do you understand that we have "attached sentimental value" to the flag?


1) "property" has nothing to do with this. You keep coming up with red herrings...
2) "fashion I don't approve of". Yes.
3) "disrespecting". It's not so much as HE IS disrespecting, as much as he is committing an ACTION that is disrespectful. Or, that I see as disrespectful.


But the thing is that it's not an "image that looks just like her wedding dress".
It IS my flag. It's his flag. It's the nation's flag. All of it in a symbolic way...

And as for your example, do you have any friends who are married (or preferrably recently married) who you could suggest that type of "gift" too?
See if they don't think it's tacky.


Uh. Obviously we do.


The very action is disrespectful in our eyes.
I've got black friends at work who I might jokingly refer to with the "n-word". I wouldn't mean any disrespect, but he might not agree with my usage.

And as far as the very action of stepping on the flag, maybe you need to remember the symbolism and emotion that is invoked in the simple act of raising a flag...
Iwo Jima - The Picture
Old Glory Raised At New York's World Trade Center: 11 September 2001