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Old 03-31-2007, 07:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chrisg967 View Post
Interesting. Makes me wonder when/if objectification happened in the various Native American tribes....
In cultures where female sexuality was as open and accepted as male sexuality, the term really wouldn't apply.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho View Post
In cultures where female sexuality was as open and accepted as male sexuality, the term really wouldn't apply.
So you're saying Native American women objectified men?

Of course the same is true in contemporary western culture.

Women are just as guilty of objectifying men today and not only in a sexual fashion.

And most women know how to use their sexuality to manipulate men, so it's not all as one-sided as you seem to suggest.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate
to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all
right for them to say things to them they would never say to a
fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects.
Old 03-31-2007, 10:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
So you're saying Native American women objectified men?

Of course the same is true in contemporary western culture.

Women are just as guilty of objectifying men today and not only in a sexual fashion.

And most women know how to use their sexuality to manipulate men, so it's not all as one-sided as you seem to suggest.
When women seduce men to get what they want, it's very seldom things of great importance. Money or favors are the big things. I don't think we can compare that to entire industries built around objectification of women.

There are others focused on men, yes, but speaking from the standpoint of human sexuality, men are more inclined to be sexually driven than women. We're built to seek out suitable mates to bear offspring, while women are naturally inclined to find men who are suitable providers. Males compete, women judge. The industry around women is significantly larger to deal with societal demands which are significantly higher because women, generally being more selective, are not as sexually inclined as men.

DON'T MISTAKE THIS FOR SEXISM!!! This is just a natural inclination. Not everybody has it, and as time progresses more people from both sexes become aware of it and seek to break gender roles. The whole point I'm trying to make is that inherent differences in both sexes lead society to create different expectations and institutions for both. As such, women are more likely to be objectified because their role is still defined as that, to some degree, by modern America. That was only the "nature" argument. I could argue for the side of "nurture" just as well.

Damn, I love my 7th period social psych class.
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Last edited by Antithesis; 03-31-2007 at 10:17 PM.
Old 03-31-2007, 10:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
So you're saying Native American women objectified men?

Of course the same is true in contemporary western culture.

Women are just as guilty of objectifying men today and not only in a sexual fashion.

And most women know how to use their sexuality to manipulate men, so it's not all as one-sided as you seem to suggest.
That's an excellent point. But while it's true that we manipulate them by using sexuality, it's also true that it is much more typical for men to see women with purely sexual interest.
"An intellectual is going to have doubts, for example, about a fundamentalist religious doctrine that admits no doubt, about an imposed political system that allows no doubt, about a perfect aesthetic that has no room for doubt." ~ Antonio Tabucchi
Old 04-01-2007, 12:48 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by policy chick View Post
That's an excellent point. But while it's true that we manipulate them by using sexuality, it's also true that it is much more typical for men to see women with purely sexual interest.
Not to mention the fact that they use their sexuality because men have put them in a position where it is their best weapon...

Who gets more attention the wicked hot chick or the wicked smart chick?


(not to say the wicked smart chick could not be wicked hot, but it is generally not her brains that men are staring at...)
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Old 04-01-2007, 11:25 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
Not to mention the fact that they use their sexuality because men have put them in a position where it is their best weapon...

Who gets more attention the wicked hot chick or the wicked smart chick?


(not to say the wicked smart chick could not be wicked hot, but it is generally not her brains that men are staring at...)
Agreed.

But as you point out, they wouldn't be able to use sexuality for that purpose if men didn't allow them to.
"An intellectual is going to have doubts, for example, about a fundamentalist religious doctrine that admits no doubt, about an imposed political system that allows no doubt, about a perfect aesthetic that has no room for doubt." ~ Antonio Tabucchi
Old 04-01-2007, 12:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by policy chick View Post
Agreed.

But as you point out, they wouldn't be able to use sexuality for that purpose if men didn't allow them to.
It comes back to personal responsibility. It doesn't matter if a woman CAN use sexuality to get ahead, but that she CHOOSES to do so. Women are responsible for the tools that they use, just the same as men.

For many, this is a tool to get ahead, much like sycophancy. If it is a person's mindset to get ahead at any cost, then all tools in the arsenal are fair game.
Old 04-01-2007, 02:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaaaman View Post
When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate
to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all
right for them to say things to them they would never say to a
fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects.
Agreed. Nor is it okay for women to view men as objects, sexual or otherwise. Although I know plenty of guys who wouldn't complain!

My point was that it's a two-way street, most women instinctively know how to exploit men's vulnerabilities in this area.
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Old 04-18-2007, 02:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Agreed. Nor is it okay for women to view men as objects, sexual or otherwise. Although I know plenty of guys who wouldn't complain!

My point was that it's a two-way street, most women instinctively know how to exploit men's vulnerabilities in this area.
Yes, they do. But it wouldn't matter if men didn't allow them to.
"An intellectual is going to have doubts, for example, about a fundamentalist religious doctrine that admits no doubt, about an imposed political system that allows no doubt, about a perfect aesthetic that has no room for doubt." ~ Antonio Tabucchi
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