Defending the Truth

If what Bullwinkile said was true the industrialized countries that do NOT have the death penalty would have more violent crime compared to us. The OPPOSITE is true.

The death penalty is archaic.

I think we are all speaking from our hearts and religious beliefs. All the statitistics are would 've/should'ves. We can only guess at what reality would hold. Obviously, if a loved one of ours were the victim of a violent crime, those statistics could easily change as easily as our viewpoints. What will be the constant is that where applicable by law, the DP can and will be carried out- no matter what we think.
Many of the posts I've read speak of the word wrong. It is important to understand that the actual meaning of wrong is in difference to set laws of society, physical science, and mathematics. These can all be proven. This and this only will define something that is wrong.Whether you are for or against the death penalty, you are not wrong, you are just speaking your belief. If the state you reside in has ratified the death penalty, it is not wrong; but maybe the end result of the due process I have been speaking about.

By and large, I'm against it, but not for the traditionally cited reasons. It is a necessarily expensive and time consuming process. In the end, it costs more to put a convict to death than it does to put him in prison for the rest of his life. However, there are special cases which I think do warrant the death penalty. John Walker and Tim McVeigh come immediately to mind.

I'm just interested in the cases you cited. Why so much Walker? If you are referring to the spy ring, Aldrich Ames committed treason on an unprecedented scale in America causing the death of many of our covert operatives; yet was given life in prison.McViegh? his politics aside, all he did was commit murder on a grand scale. I do agree that both of these individuals received what they richly deserved; but what of the others that commit the same crimes that are not sentenced to the death penalty? What is the difference? Media attention and public outcry? Maybe I misunderstood the meaning of your post. If so, I apologize.

Personally, I don't think John Walker deserves death.

McVeigh? Yes, as I think other mass and serial killers deserve it. They cannot be cured, do not want to stop, and will continue their evil if they ever get out. Ever hear of Kenneth McDuff?

There is another serial killer in prison that is even up for prole soon! (Although he is unlikely to get it) I'm sure you all know of Charles Manson. Do you think he can be cured? He won't be put to death-ever-because over the years he has become a symbol of our culture's obsession with the sick and depraved. He is a media icon if there ever was one. Can anyone explain to me the need or not of the death penalty using Manson as an example?

Manson, IMO, cannot be cured.

His followers, at least some, can and HAVE been cured.

I've seen interviews of Patricia Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houten, and these women are out of the thrall of Manson, and while they would like to get out of prison, don't ever hope to. They talk about those times now almost as if it were a dream, surreal in nature.

Notice, though, that they never interview Susan Atkins and Charles Watson, IMO, the craziest of the group.

First of all, Manson was originally given the death sentence. Then the USSC (or whatever judiciary panel there was) threw out the death penalty as being unconstitutional. So all death sentences were commuted to life imprisonment, including Manson and his followers.

Manson and his followers were drug addicts. They took LSD. There is no way that Manson will ever be cured. He is still a crazy SOB.

I guess to sentence Manson to death at this time requires another trial. But I don't think we want to hear the grisly details of what happened in 1969. Vincent Bugliosi wrote a book about that.

I saw Manson's interview with Dianne Sawyer many years ago on CBS. Boy, he is still loony.

Technically, they can't change is commutation.

He can't be tried again because of double jeopardy.

The USSC did commute all death sentences to life in prison around 1970. That decision has since been changed, and, obviously, capital punishment has gone on since Gary Gilmore in 1977.