For Capital Punishment or Against it?

RidinHighSpeeds · 07-17-2005, 04:29 PM

I think Romney said it best. If the convicted is indeed guilty, WITH DNA EVIDENCE, he should get the death penatly.

Other than that...aMFliberal does have his point.

tadpole256 · 07-17-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

But you can't kill them quick because if you execute a criminal and then it later surfaces, in some way, that he was innocent of the crime (which has happened) the backlash from the public and media is crazy. So then once again we're stuck with a longer, drawn out system. That's why I support getting rid of the whole damn thing.

And for the record, I believe that many of these criminal do not deserve to live. I still think a life time sentence in solitary confinement is a worse punishment. My point is the system, either the quick way or the slow way, is a mess.

I agree that the system is a mess.

In regards to your first issue, it's simple. Kill any member of the media that brings it to the surface. That way it stays nice and buried... deep... the way it should be...

{part of my above response may have been said for comedic shock value}

aMFliberal · 07-17-2005, 07:00 PM

I just did a quick Google search on execution vs. imprisonment. I didn't have time to read the whole page, but here are some stats I found.

A Duke University study found... "The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life." ( The costs of processing murder cases in North Carolina / Philip J. Cook, Donna B. Slawson ; with the assistance of Lori A. Gries. [Durham, NC] : Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy, Duke University, 1993.)

"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level." (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 198

.

"A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000." (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

"Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution."
(Miami Herald, July 10, 198

.

"Florida calculated that each execution there costs some $3.18 million. If incarceration is estimated to cost $17000/year, a comparable statistic for life in prison of 40 years would be $680,000."
(The Geography of Execution... The Capital Punishment Quagmire in America, Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood 1997 p.6)

Figures from the General Accounting Office are close to these results. Total annual costs for all U.S. Prisons, State and Federal, was $17.7 billion in 1994 along with a total prison population of 1.1 million inmates. That amounts to $16100 per inmate/year.
(GOA report and testimony FY-97 GGD-97-15 )

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

tadpole256 · 07-17-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

I just did a quick Google search on execution vs. imprisonment. I didn't have time to read the whole page, but here are some stats I found.

A Duke University study found... "The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life." ( The costs of processing murder cases in North Carolina / Philip J. Cook, Donna B. Slawson ; with the assistance of Lori A. Gries. [Durham, NC] : Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy, Duke University, 1993.)

"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level." (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 198

.

"A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000." (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )

"Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution."
(Miami Herald, July 10, 198

.

"Florida calculated that each execution there costs some $3.18 million. If incarceration is estimated to cost $17000/year, a comparable statistic for life in prison of 40 years would be $680,000."
(The Geography of Execution... The Capital Punishment Quagmire in America, Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood 1997 p.6)

Figures from the General Accounting Office are close to these results. Total annual costs for all U.S. Prisons, State and Federal, was $17.7 billion in 1994 along with a total prison population of 1.1 million inmates. That amounts to $16100 per inmate/year.
(GOA report and testimony FY-97 GGD-97-15 )

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

So there is a problem with the appeals process is what I hear...

RidinHighSpeeds · 07-17-2005, 10:43 PM

Sure is! That's definately the most costly thing about it! But couldn't they get an appeal if they were in prison also?? Costing the same?? I could be wrong...If we just execute the guilty with DNA testing, their would be no need for an appeal. Without DNA testing to prove him guilty, just throw him in jail I guess.

Would that solve it?? Just my 2 cents.

aMFliberal · 07-18-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

So there is a problem with the appeals process is what I hear...

Haha....yeah.

The numbers that also stick out to me are the ones that indicated that each execution costs in the millions whereas imprisonment for 40 years averages to the $500,000-$800,000. I wouldn't so worried about the millions it takes to put up prisons. They are at least for a good cause and practical. Convict someone to death, a couple decades and a couple million later and they're dead. Where would you want to spend your money?

thenewnoise · 07-18-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

What's your point?

My point is that intentionally killing someone who is innocent is wrong.

aMFliberal · 07-18-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenewnoise

My point is that intentionally killing someone who is innocent is wrong.

Well, they are intentionally killing people...which is bad enough, but most of the time they are guilty.

thenewnoise · 07-18-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy

Yes, that was a very good point. Well... Until we get a liberal that tells us how it cost more money to execute them than to harbor them.... It's asinine.

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times
All Rights Reserved
Los Angeles Times

March 6, 2005 Sunday
Home Edition

SECTION: CALIFORNIA; Metro; Metro Desk; Part B; Pg. 1

...The public cost of maintaining the death penalty, meanwhile, continues to mount. The annual bill breaks down like this:

* According to Corrections Department spokeswoman Margot Bach, it costs $90,000 more a year to house an inmate on death row, where each person has a private cell and extra guards, than in the general prison population. That accounts for $57.5 million annually.

* Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer, whose deputies represent the counties during appeals, estimates that he devotes about 15% of his criminal division budget to capital cases, or about $11 million annually.

* The California Supreme Court, which is required by law to review every death penalty case, spends $11.8 million annually for court-appointed defense counsel.

* The Office of the State Public Defender, which represents some death row inmates, has an annual budget of $11.3 million. The San Francisco-based Habeas Corpus Resource Center, another state-funded office, represents inmates and trains death penalty attorneys on a budget of $11 million.

* Finally, federal public defenders offices in Los Angeles and Sacramento, and private attorneys appointed by the federal court system for California cases, receive about $12 million annually.

The resulting $114-million annual cost does not include the substantial extra funds needed to try the complicated capital cases in county courts.

Research by the UC Berkeley School of Public Policy in 1993, the most recent study of its type available, showed that in Los Angeles County, a capital murder trial costs three times more to try than a noncapital murder case, $1.9 million compared to $630,000. One reason for the extra costs is that capital cases require a jury trial for sentencing after guilt has been determined in the first trial.

Typically, capital cases have four times as many pretrial motions, more investigators and expert testimony and much more exhaustive jury selection.

Other spending not included in the total are courtroom, staff and filing costs at the California Supreme Court, four federal district courts and the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

In an interview, (CA Supreme Court Chief Justice) George estimated that the state's highest court spends about 20% of its time and resources on death penalty cases alone. Federal habeas corpus appeals in death cases are so expensive that the 9th Circuit assigns a U.S. district judge just to review the budgets of each capital case...

That is how it costs more to execute someone. And you know what they say, "The leading cause of death on death row is old age." We are paying a hell of a lot to not kill people. If most people who are sentenced to death are not executed, then there is no teeth to the threat of the death penalty. If we execute people sooner we run an even higher risk of killing innocent people.

aMFliberal · 07-18-2005, 05:18 PM

Nice job. I saw the challenge too. Now that's two people who have posted information proving otherwise..