Death Penalty Un-Christian

CrazyFlamingos · 03-05-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

If those prisoners are there because they were unable to be controlled, then it is their own faults. As far as the ones who are sent there from the start, I can't say. But I still think that they could find ways to keep from going mad. John McCain did okay, and many others have as well. If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is. It is their fault if they commit a crime that results in execution too but you seem to have an issue with that anyway.

John McCain was never totally isolated from human contact 23 hours a day.

And "don't do the crime" is just something we say to make ourselves feel better about the deplorable reality of our so-called justice system.

Dustin · 03-06-2008, 12:54 PM

It's all about tax dollars, not religion folks.

highway80west · 03-06-2008, 12:59 PM

Some perps would blame society for the crime they commit. Like those two Latino gang members shooting into a car in L.A. the other day, which left a six-year-old on life support. They only need to blame themselves. They didn't have to carry out that horrific crime.

waitingtables · 03-06-2008, 02:05 PM

So crazy, what is your solution? We have to protect society from criminals, how do we do that without locking them up? Death is not the same as imprisonment, not by a long shot.

CrazyFlamingos · 03-06-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

So crazy, what is your solution? We have to protect society from criminals, how do we do that without locking them up? Death is not the same as imprisonment, not by a long shot.

Not once have I said that we should not lock up criminals. You are presenting a straw-man argument and completely failing to address what I am actually saying..

What I am saying and have been saying all along is that it makes no sense to plead the moral high ground when refusing to consider the death penalty for murderers deemed so dangerous that they must be kept in 24-hour lock down for the rest of their lives.

Such forced isolation & sensory deprivation is tortuous to most human beings. The effects of these have been well documented in psychological literature.

I know that if I, personally, were allowed to choose between super-max lock down for the rest of my natural life or execution, I would choose execution.

And don't even bother telling me that criminals don't get to choose their punishment. Because the very concept of eliminating the cruel and unusual in meting out punishment requires that we look at the punishment from the criminal's viewpoint. Otherwise justice would require that we cast aside all notions that a punishment might be cruel and go back to the eye for an eye concept of making the punishment fit the crime.

sgtdmski · 03-07-2008, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

If the Constitution supported laws about gun ownership, which are clearly un-Christian, should Christians dismiss these as "rendering unto Caesar".

I think not.

Jesus was talking specifically about taxation in your quote, why do you assume his words should reinforce the American principle of separating church and state? How convenient!!!

Christians should not automatically be prepared to surrender their principles to the whims of man-made laws.

The Constitution does support laws about gun ownership, it is called the Second Amendment!! What does owning a gun have anything to do with religion. Guns are used every day to hunt, and to save lives. There is no surrendering of principle. While Jesus did tell us to turn the other cheek, he also set forth the right for the state to defend us when someone treats us unjustly. Why should belief in God take those protections away??????

dmk

sgtdmski · 03-07-2008, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

I agree. And it is like Jesus to forgive the sinner, but that does not mean that you let him go roam freely to kill again. They have to be incarcerated to eradicate the threat. But I don't agree with state sanctioned murder.

It is not murder, it is a punishment for a crime. Going in the criminal knew that this would be the punishment he/she faced if they committed the crime, yet they choose to commit the crime anyway.

Don't confuse the two. The state acts without any malice.

dmk

sgtdmski · 03-07-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingtables

That is why we have supermax facilities. And a guard is the sme as a cop, they know the risks of their jobs when they decide to do that job.

And the death penalty is one of the tools that society uses to help protect these people. If you kill a cop or a guard in the line of duty then you will face the death penalty. It may not deter some people, but it does deter a good many. Police and guards put their lives on the line everyday, and they know this, but many states they also know that if they were to be killed, the state would seek the ultimate penalty against their assailant. The assailants also know this and many do not wish to risk that wrath.

dmk

waitingtables · 03-07-2008, 07:01 AM

I don't know how you consider my argument a straw man. I stated that if murder is wrong, it's wrong 100%. Not to mention that our system is so corrupt, it is not applied fairly or equally, and one innocent state sanctioned death is too many. Therefore, the death penalty is wrong. I'm not referring to how these prisoners are held, or cruel and unusual punishment

Grace · 03-07-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

If the Constitution supported laws about gun ownership, which are clearly un-Christian, should Christians dismiss these as "rendering unto Caesar".

I think not.

Jesus was talking specifically about taxation in your quote, why do you assume his words should reinforce the American principle of separating church and state? How convenient!!!

Christians should not automatically be prepared to surrender their principles to the whims of man-made laws.

So if a person owns a gun that means they cant be a Christian?