You - by your own assertion - are pro-abortion.
You - by your own asseriont - believe that every woman should have the choice to abort her pre-born baby for any and every reason. Period.

What's the confusion there?

So... What does that have to do with being closed minded? I believe that because of what I consider to be logical reasoning, research, and science. I'm sure you've reached your conclusions based on your own criteria. If you can reason that a whatever is a baby, go ahead. All you do is make statements, and fail to back them up. Then you make assertions about the people you 'debate' with.

I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-woman. Abortion is a tough decision with serious emotional reprecussions... But it is just that, a decision. A personal ethical and moral decision.

Yeah, okay. You're not pro-abortion, you're pro-woman? And I don't "crap", I "poop."

You have already stated, repeatedly, that you are FOR a woman choosing to end the life of her unborn baby - for whatever reason.

If you're so "pro-woman"...
Why not be FOR empowering women to not get pregnant in the first place?
Why not be FOR educating people who want to have sex so that they don't get pregnant?
Why not be FOR helping people be accountable for their behavior, and face the consequences of it - something everyone really does have to do all their lives?
Why not be FOR holding men accountable for their sexual activities?
Why not be FOR the millions of women who cannot have babies of their own, and want to adopt?
Why not be FOR educating women who are thinking about having an abortion, rather than shoving them through the abortion mill before they can really ponder and mull over the abortion information they've been given?
Why not be FOR parental notification, so that teenage girls don't have their reproductive organs mutilated by over-zealous abortion doctors?

Funny thing is, I'm pro-woman too. I just go about it different. I'm pro-woman in that...
- I love and am committed to my wife of nearly 25 years.
- I have continued to take personal responsibility for the 3 times I got my wife pregnant - and have continued to be present and responsible for our children, even the two that are adults.
- We have TOGETHER decided on birth control for all these years - the final contraceptive measure being one I took.
- I am NOT willing to LIE to people and say that legal abortion is either safe, or moral.


That's a FAR CRY from standing on a street-corner, holding up a sign, and screaming, "Let them get their abortions!!!!"

I believe in expanded education programs and distribution of birth control, because abortion should be, and is a last resort. I am against parental notification because the fear of reprecussions might stick a girl with a child she can't take care of, or worse, she might seek illegal, dangerous means.

Honestly, you'res spouting bullshit. You're lumping every single member of the movement into the same catagory. I might as well say that everyone who believes in God is stupid, or that everyone that supports the Iraq war is stupid. Obviously, such a generalization is FALSE. The same goes for abortion issues.

You are assuming that I believe abortion is the best solution. Frankly, that's stupid. Abortion is the last resort of the desperate. I believe we should try to reduce the number of abortions by increasing education and the availability of birth control, not by banning it. I do not believe that abortion is murder, but it is a surgical produdure, and it is a life-altering action with a risk of severe mental reprecussions... Like regret. Things that can eat at you for the rest of your life. I think abortion is and should be an option, not the only option.

I do support having a waiting period and at least one free counciling session for anyone who is seeking an abortion. However, I belive the decision ultimately should lie with the woman, and not the state. It's none of the government's business, since it is a moral gray area. Maybe not in your mind, but what evidence do you have besides your uncertainty as to where life begins?

I commend your personal decisions. I would also like to point out that those decisions were personal. Some people oppose any birth control as vehemently as you oppose abortion. How would you like it if the government made that decision for you?

I also assure you that I do not spend any of my time standing on a street corner, shouting for people to get abortions.

1. Yeah, because heaven forbid, the girl might decide to NOT get a quickie abortion - and the doctor would miss out on that money.
2. I am? You just don't like what I'm saying. I'm not lumping people together. You yourself have stated, clearly, that you think a woman should be able to end the life of her pre-born baby for any reason.
3. WRONG! The VAST majority of abortions are nothing more than post-sexual contraception. They're for convenience. And don't even give me that "rape/incest/health of the mother" crap. All that accounts for a tiny fraction of all abortions. Less than 5%.
4. That's because you're not the parent of a premature child - like one of mine that is now a fully functioning young adult. You keep calling pre-born babies "non-humans" and you are so deluded that you can't see what utter CRAP that is. You only say it to salve your conscience.
5. That's nothing more than you saying that your idea of when life begins is better than anybody else's idea. Clearly, life does NOT begin when a child is born.
6. Thank you. They were ALSO moral and responsible DECISIONS. The government opposing birth control is NOTHING like it opposing abortion. One might keep somebody from getting pregnant, the other ends a pre-born baby's life. Not even remotely the same.
7. You're just doing it here.

1. Abortion is not an industry. It is a medical procedure. I believe I've already indicated my support for counciling and a waiting period. Not having parental notification doesn't make it a 'quicky abortion.'
2. You're right, I did. However, you're also making a lot of assumptions, which I have proceeded to refute, such as being a heartless baby hater or whatever.
3. The vast majority of abortions are due to mistakes. I am quite aware of that fact. I am also aware that married women statistically have the most abortions. This may suprise you, but most women are pretty good at telling whether it's a good time to have a baby or not. The desperate doesn't just include those poor people who have been the victims of rape and/or incest. Desperate can mean the woman doesn't have enough money to support another child comfortably, or the family simply doesn't want another child. Most people don't have an abortion before trying anything else.
4. You're right. I am not a parent, because at this point in my life, I feel that I am not ready to be a parent. However, a premature baby is still born... albeit prematurely. Once that baby is born, it is no longer connected to the body of the woman, and therefore no longer a part of the woman's body. If you cut off your hand, it isn't your hand anymore.
5. How clearly? Prove it. I don't think it's that clear, and neither do the approximate half of all Americans that believe that abortion should be legal. If it's so clear, everyone, or at least a majority, would agree. I don't know when life begins, but I do know when a whatever stops physically imposing on its mother, and that's after birth.
6. Many people believe they are the same. If they chose to impose their will on you, it would also be the same. It's their ethics against yours, and your ethics against mine. I fail to see the difference, except for which position you happen to be in under the circumstances.
7. This is a debate website. It is designed for debate. I am debating.

Sure I'm 14, as for your stupidity you clearly misunderstood me. I don't care if there is a 1% chanche does that girl still deserve a chanche to die after all shes been through?

Did you even read the case that the Supreme Court used to make this decision????? Or are you just jumping on the band wagon???? Read the facts of Roper v Simmons. The so-called 17 year old bragged to his friends before committing the crime that even if caught he couldn't be sentenced to death, because he was a minor. Here was a 17 year old that influenced a 15 and a 14 year old to commit a crime. They broke into the woman's house, bound and gagged her with duct tape. Proceeded to rob the house, and beat the woman. They then stuffed her into a bag, and threw her off a bridge. The woman was still alive, how do we know, because during autopsy water was found in her lungs.

There is no shade of gray. This was a callous murderer, not some innocent misguided child. So who is judging easily?????

dmk

Frankly you are sarge...

what worries me is that you seem to feel a certain satisfaction that a child was put to death. The murder was a tragedy. If the child is executed it is a double tragedy. Not a source of satisfaction.
Justice may have been done by the letter of the law. But how do you know what the kid went through before he went and did somthing as crazy as this. Fact is you don't, so you don't really know if life was fair to the kid. Granted killing another human is not excusable, no matter what trauma you have experienced. But maybe he didn't deserve to die.. fact is we only know the facts of the case. Not the facts of the kid's life

Dude seriously... Considering the violation of your body an abortion actually is, how can it possibly ever be a matter of convenience. Are you telling me that an abortion is preffered to taking a pill or putting on a condom?
i would really like the source where you get this info.
No woman would ever prefer a surgical procedure to a pill. It's just not possible. That's would just be downright crazy.
I think it's cool if you say that nobody should get an abortion. And i think everybody agrees with you. But i think its particularly ignorant of you to claim that it is a matter of convenience. there is nothing remotely convenient or comfortable about an abortion. It's a serious decision.. not a whim.