Giuliani: Democratic health plans 'socialist'

mikelew007 · 07-31-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

I'm afraid the Democrats don't even have such a universal plan. Romney's complaint might be stretched if what he said about the Democrats' plans was true. The only Democrat advocating a truly national, non-profit, universal system is Dennis Kucinich. Everyone else's plan is doomed to failure, and once Clinton's or Obama's plan fails, the Republican propaganda machine will hold it up and make an example out of the 'failures of socialized medicine'. Even though it would never be so in the first place.

Ugh, I just don't wanna end up voting for "the lesser of two evils". I want my 1st vote in a presidential election to be a vote for someone I want in office, not because I think the candidate won't be as bad as the other guy. I want to vote for someone, not against someone. At least the Democrats are in favor of some sort of universal health care system, some sort of withdrawal from Iraq, and are actually for talking to other nations, even if said nations don't like us. That still gives me hope.

garysher · 07-31-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelew007

I guess we don't need the fire dept., the police, public schools, or public water and sewage systems either according to Mr. Giuliani. Those are all taxpayer-funded and they're all basically government-provided. It's essentially the government (County, city, state, or otherwise.) putting criminals behind bars, putting out the fires, teaching our children, and keeping our tap water usable.

It's not like any of those programs contribute to society anyway right? lol (more sarcasm!)

Don't forget socialised farming, the huge subsidies that contravene market forces (i.e. make food cheaper) as defined in the Farm Bill.

Also socialised drug research, socialised interstate highways and the socialised military forces to name just a few!

Katczinsky · 07-31-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelew007

Ugh, I just don't wanna end up voting for "the lesser of two evils". I want my 1st vote in a presidential election to be a vote for someone I want in office, not because I think the candidate won't be as bad as the other guy. I want to vote for someone, not against someone. At least the Democrats are in favor of some sort of universal health care system, some sort of withdrawal from Iraq, and are actually for talking to other nations, even if said nations don't like us. That still gives me hope.

Well, there's always third party candidates. I think a big mistake among American voters is that they complain about the two party system but then they sustain it by participating in it. I believe there are more self-described "independents" than there are people who describe themselves as belonging to any one of the two main political parties; but obviously the majority of them vote for Democrat or Republican.

I know that I will vote third party if Dennis Kucinich or maybe Ron Paul doesn't get either the Democratic or Republican nominations; which is almost inevitable. Which probably means I'll either be voting for Green Party, Socialist Party, or Independent (which would probably be Ralph Nader), and maybe, just maybe Libertarian if the movement is big enough and the candidate isn't too bad. Though the latter seems highly improbable.

Usually C-Span airs the third party candidate debates. They're a lot more refreshing than the Democrat/Republican debates to say the least.

RidinHighSpeeds · 07-31-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

The US spends a much higher percentage of its GDP on healthcare (around 15%) than any other western economy.

Even so 43m Americans have no insurance, and huge corporations like GM, Ford, United Airlines etc are crippled by health insurance overheads.

There has to be a better way.

How would you propose providing health care for all and making it affordable?

Working with insurance companies. The way Romney did hear in Massachusetts to ensure everyone gets coverage.

RidinHighSpeeds · 07-31-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelew007

Ugh, I just don't wanna end up voting for "the lesser of two evils". I want my 1st vote in a presidential election to be a vote for someone I want in office, not because I think the candidate won't be as bad as the other guy. I want to vote for someone, not against someone. At least the Democrats are in favor of some sort of universal health care system, some sort of withdrawal from Iraq, and are actually for talking to other nations, even if said nations don't like us. That still gives me hope.

Some Republicans are for universal healthcare as well..

hevusa · 08-01-2007, 12:01 PM

The day is long overdue for Americans to get the medical care they deserve AND to not receive a bill on the way out.

It just makes simple sense for the overall benefit of our society.

We have socialized systems in America that already work (fire dept, police, mail) and health care should be added to that successful foundation of socialized America.

RidinHighSpeeds · 08-01-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

The day is long overdue for Americans to get the medical care they deserve AND to not receive a bill on the way out.

It just makes simple sense for the overall benefit of our society.

We have socialized systems in America that already work (fire dept, police, mail) and health care should be added to that successful foundation of socialized America.

The thing is, you can't really abuse systems such as the fire dept, police, mail, etc. Healthcare can be abused, and I can vision the negative effects from it..

Katczinsky · 08-01-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds

The thing is, you can't really abuse systems such as the fire dept, police, mail, etc. Healthcare can be abused, and I can vision the negative effects from it..

Hmmm, I don't really see how you can abuse it; either you're sick and injured or you're not. Unless I'm missing something here.

It's a federal offense to call 911 if there isn't really an emergency. Perhaps something like this could apply to universal health care? Who knows.

RidinHighSpeeds · 08-01-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

It's a federal offense to call 911 if there isn't really an emergency. Perhaps something like this could apply to universal health care? Who knows.

Not a bad idea...

CrazyFlamingos · 08-01-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

Hmmm, I don't really see how you can abuse it; either you're sick and injured or you're not. Unless I'm missing something here.

It's a federal offense to call 911 if there isn't really an emergency. Perhaps something like this could apply to universal health care? Who knows.

I don't see how it could be abused either. I would think that any abuses that could occur would already be covered under existing fraud statutes.

Perhaps RHS could elaborate as to what sort of abuse he means?