Dick Cheney just pulled off the biggest scam - Page 4

tyreay · 04-11-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

He doesn't own the stocks. They are -- now get this -- UNEXERCISED stock options. They will at some point belong to the trust, an irrevocable trust set up to benefit the charities involved. Cheney does NOT get any benefit from the unexercised stock OPTIONS. Options, get that word?

Oh, you are so wrong. And by the way, Cheney is not president.

Cheney still owns them. At some point they go to this trust, huh? why is it that the stock are not in this fund now? We'll see how rightous Cheney is when it comes time to actually give up those stocks! More double talk bullcrap. You'll believe anything told to you, as long as it backs the Republicans, even after the long list of proven lies, won't you?
We both know there are hundreds of links providing info on this subject that contridict your statements. No matter what I show you it will not matter, you have made up you mind. You go ahead and continue to be the backer of war criminals, war profiteers and genocidal facists. We won't want to face the truth when your porfolio maybe be on the line.

Oh and by the way big corperations and Cheney are in charge of this country and Bush is thier pawn.

vharlow · 04-11-2007, 11:12 AM

THE STOCKS IN QUESTION STILL BELONG TO HALLIBURTON!!!! An OPTION to purchase them at a given price is ALREADY HELD BY THE IRREVOCABLE TRUST! Do you understand that an OPTION is not a STOCK??? Do you jnderstand it is only an option to purchase that stock at some time in the future at a given price???? Those options are now owned by a trust set up to benefit charities! Those charities will gain from this option to purchase these stocks at some point in the future. Do you understand the term "irrevocable"???? It means the Cheney's cannot revoke the deal!

Oh, and I'm not a republican. I don't have a portfolio.

If anyone was to rebuild the oil industry in a country WE, America, liberated, I suppose you think those contracts should have been awarded to the French? Perhaps the Russians? You would have awarded those contracts to countries and companies who had been corruptly gaming the Oil-For-Food Program with the aid of the UN???? I suppose you would have asked Iran for help to rebuild the oil industry in Iraq?

And had the Russians/French/Germans, etc taken on the job, would you somehow have the notion that they should work free??? that's what you seem to think of our Amerrican contractors.

OF COURSE some contractors are making money restoring Iraq, or trying to do so. They deserve to be paid for the work they do same as anyone else.

Halliburton was doing that sort of work for decades before the Bush Administration. The Clintons even hired Halliburton when they were outbid by Dyncorp BECAUSE THEY WERE ALREADY DOING TO JOB AND HAD THE EXPERTISE IN THE AREA for things they wanted and needed done. YOU want Iraq rebuilt by the lowest bidder?????? I want it done right.

You are so filled with hatred for this administration, for Bush and Cheney, you slander them regularly and haven't a clue!

I suppose after we liberated Iraq it would have been just GRAND with you if Germany got those contracts???? After fighting tooth and tong against changing things because they would lose money and be found out for cheating on the Oil-For-Food program....or perhaps France? More cheaters. Perhaps you think the Chinese should be there doing the work?

If you so hate America, why not go over there and discover for yourself who the genocidal fascists are? I think you read too much propaganda, and worse, you believe it so long as America is the bad guy! Shame on you.

tyreay · 04-11-2007, 01:49 PM

You are quite good at ignoring my points an then trying to make your own.
The point here is not that an 'American' company has the contract. The point is that they were just given the contract with no bid process at all. You may think that is just fine but it is not how the US is suppose to do buiness. It is illegal and wrong. If you fail to make the connection that is your choice. Not only was the contract award not handle by DOD but it was given directly by the Bush administration through political channels, bypassing the checks and balances installed in our system. Criminal act.
As for your claim that I hate this country, I've heard this one before, but only from the Bush/Cheney supporters. I happen to love this country and have enough nerve to speak up against the tarnishing of our name. Like it or not the current administration could care less about how we look to the world community, just as you don't. We are no longer the just and fair country we use to be. Guess who's fault that is.
Your turning a blind eye to the corruption at hand is not as American as you think. You choose to make yourself part of the problem, rather than actually taking a unbias look at what is going on and then exercising your 1st anendment right to speak up! You go right ahead with your stubbornness. Shame on you.
Do you know we use weapons of mass destruction on our 'enemies'? We shot off hundreds of thousands of tons of Denature Uranium, that is so thick even our own guys are sick from it. The people, the innocent people, of Iraq will be dying for generations to come. Like it or not these are the facts. Genocide is part of the plan but I bet you'll just sweep this under the rug and not even look into it. Typical.
I am done arguing with you. Have a great day.

Sally Numor · 04-12-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

OK. My parents, my grandparents, my great-grandparents and, to the best of my knowledge, everyone else in my family who was alive at that time. Granted most of them are deceased so I can't actually show them to you but they were all very much opposed to what the KKK stood for. (And, yes, we are white.)

Not everyone in the South was KKK. That is a gross mis-representation.

Granted....so is it to still assume someone who has publicly denounced what he did is still doing it..I don't think the legislation from Byrd supports allegations he is still a member, too.

Sally Numor · 04-12-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

Check out this link.

FactCheck.org Kerry Ad Falsely Accuses Cheney on Halliburton

It will explain the Cheney deal. You guys are just nutty if you don't understand what an irrevocable trust is, a stock option isn't a stock, and Cheney's aren't getting any money from those stock options which haven't been exercised. Charities will benefit. I suppose you could say those charities are thieves, and war profiteers. Read all about it.

As far as the deferred compensation goes, just who do you think would ever consider taking a government job if they had to give away money they already earned? Would you? I mean, say you earn $39,000 this year, but agree to take only $28,000 and the rest over a period of 5 years once you leave the company. Are YOU going to leave that money there and not take what you earned?

Did you go bonkers over Hillary's $100,000 profit from a cattle option deal long ago? Are you the least bit concerned about the millions they all of a sudden seem to have when they were so poor they never even owned their own home before becoming presidents? It was a 'co-presidency' remember. Oh, and you should also know that Clintons awarded Halliburton contracts even when Dyncorp had outbid them....hmmmmmm.....maybe it's because Halliburton was doing a good job there already?

Of course, what about Soros buying 2,000,000 shares of Halliburton in the last quarter of 2006???? Boy. I don't think he's been accused of war profiteering yet....

It's not all that rosey and principled...Halliburton is still connected to Cheney...

Quote:

We asked Cheney's personal attorney to document that, and he did, supplying several documents never released publicly before:

*
A Halliburton pay statement dated Jan 2, 2001 shows just under $147,579 was paid that day as "elect defrl payou," meaning payout of salary from the company's Elective Deferral Plan. That was salary Cheney had earned in 1999, but which he had chosen previously to receive in five installments spread over five years.
*
Another pay statement dated Jan. 18 shows $1,451,398 was paid that day under the company's "Incentive Plan C" for senior executives. That was Cheney's incentive compensation -- bonus money -- paid on the basis of the company's performance in 2000. Cheney had formally resigned from the company the previous September to campaign full time, but the amount of his bonus couldn't be calculated until the full year's financial results were known.

Cheney's personal financial disclosure forms, together with the pay statements just mentioned, show that Cheney has received $398,548 in deferred salary from Halliburton "as vice president." And of course, all of that is money he earned when he was the company's chief executive officer. Cheney was due to receive another payment in 2004, and a final payment in 2005.

The Kerry ad isn't the only place the false $2 million figure appears. The Democratic National Committee also gets it wrong on their website. The dates of the Halliburton payments don't appear on Cheney's personal financial disclosure form from 2001, and the DNC assumed -- incorrectly as we have shown -- that all the 2001 payment were made after he took office.

Deferred Salary

The $398,548 Halliburton has paid to Cheney while in office is all deferred compensation, a common practice that high-salaried executives use to reduce their tax bills by spreading income over several years. In Cheney's case, he signed a Halliburton form in December of 1998 choosing to have 50% of his salary for the next year, and 90% of any bonus money for that year, spread out over five years. (As it turned out, there was no bonus for 1999.) We asked Cheney's personal attorney to document the deferral agreement as well, and he supplied us with a copy of the form , posted here publicly for the first time.

Legally, Halliburton can't increase or reduce the amount of the deferred compensation no matter what Cheney does as vice president. So Cheney's deferred payments from Halliburton wouldn't increase no matter how much money the company makes, or how many government contracts it receives.

On the other hand, there is a possibility that if the company went bankrupt it would be unable to pay. That raises the theoretical possibility of a conflict of interest -- if the public interest somehow demanded that Cheney take action that would hurt Halliburton it could conceivably end up costing him money personally. So to insulate himself from that possible conflict, Cheney purchased an insurance policy (which cost him$14,903) that promises to pay him all the deferred compensation that Halliburton owes him even if the company goes bust and refuses to pay. The policy does contain escape clauses allowing the insurance company to refuse payment in the unlikely events that Cheney files a claim resulting "directly or indirectly" from a change in law or regulation, or from a "prepackaged" bankruptcy in which creditors agree on terms prior to filing. But otherwise it ensures Cheney will get what Halliburton owes him should it go under.

Cheney aides supplied a copy of that policy to us -- blacking out only some personal information about Cheney -- which we have posted here publicly for the first time.

Stock Options

That still would leave the possibility that Cheney could profit from his Halliburton stock options if the company's stock rises in value. However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies to charity. And we're not just taking the Cheney's word for this -- we asked for a copy of the legal agreement they signed, which we post here publicly for the first time.

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

The options owned by the Cheney's have been valued at nearly $8 million, his attorney says. Such valuations are rough estimates only -- the actual value will depend on what happens to stock prices in the future, which of course can't be known beforehand. But it is clear that giving up rights to the future profits constitutes a significant financial sacrifice, and a sizeable donation to the chosen charities.

"Financial Interest"

Democrats have taken issue with Cheney's statement to Tim Russert on NBC's Meet the Press Sept. 14, 2003, when he said he had no "financial interest" in Halliburton:

Cheney (Sept. 14, 2003): I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interests. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had now for over three years. And as vice president, I have absolutely no influence of, involvement of, knowledge of in any way, shape or form of contracts led by the Corps of Engineers or anybody else in the federal government.

Shortly after that, Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg released a legal analysis he'd requested from the Congressional Research Service. Without naming Cheney, the memo concluded a federal official in his position -- with deferred compensation covered by insurance, and stock options whose after-tax profits had been assigned to charity -- would still retain an "interest" that must be reported on an official's annual disclosure forms. And in fact, Cheney does report his options and deferred salary each year.

But the memo reached no firm conclusion as to whether such options or salary constitute an "interest" that would pose a legal conflict. It said "it is not clear" whether assigning option profits to charity would theoretically remove a potential conflict, adding, "no specific published rulings were found on the subject." And it said that insuring deferred compensation "might" remove it as a problem under conflict of interest laws.

Actually, the plain language of the Office of Government Ethics regulations on this matter seems clear enough. The regulations state: "The term financial interest means the potential for gain or loss to the employee . . . as a result of governmental action on the particular matter." So by removing the "potential for gain or loss" Cheney has solid grounds to argue that he has removed any "financial interest" that would pose a conflict under federal regulations.

Conflict of Interest

It is important to note here that Cheney could legally have held onto his Halliburton stock options, and no law required him to buy insurance against the possibility that Halliburton wouldn't pay the deferred compensation it owes him. Both the President and Vice President are specifically exempted from federal conflict-of-interest laws, for one thing, as are members of Congress and federal judges.

And even federal officials who are covered by the law may legally own a financial interest in a company, provided they formally recuse themselves -- stand aside -- from making decisions that would have a "direct and predictable effect on that interest." And Cheney says he's done just that.

Cheney says he takes no part in matters relating to Halliburton, and so far we've seen no credible allegation to the contrary. Time magazine reported in its June 7 edition that an e-mail from an unnamed Army Corps of Engineers official stated that a contract to be given to Halliburton in March 2003 "has been coordinated w VP's [Vice President's] office." But it wasn't clear who wrote that e-mail, whether the author had direct knowledge or was just repeating hearsay, or even what was meant by the word "coordinated," which could mean no more than that somebody in Cheney's office was being kept informed of contract talks.

Indeed, a few days later it was revealed that Cheney's chief of staff Lewis "Scooter" Libby was informed in advance that Halliburton was going to receive an earlier contract in the fall of 2002 -- to secretly plan post-war repair of Iraq's oil facilities. But being informed of a decision after it is made is a far cry from taking part in making it. And according to the White House, Libby didn't even pass on the information to Cheney anyway.

So to sum up, this Kerry ad's implication that Cheney has a financial interest in Halliburton is unfounded and the $2 million figure is flat wrong.

vharlow · 04-14-2007, 08:32 AM

Yes, they are still paying him a salary he earned BEFORE he became Vice President. He earned it and by right should be paid it.

billybobama · 04-14-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Apparently you're not aware that Cheney is no longer head of Halliburton?

Besides, this is just suicide on the part of Halliburton. All that needs to be said is that if they move their headquarters, there will never again be another US Government contract. They'll fold.

Apparently you live in some strange fantasy world. It is very clear you know zero about business and criminal activity.

billybobama · 04-14-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

Yes, they are still paying him a salary he earned BEFORE he became Vice President. He earned it and by right should be paid it.

When Dick Cheney leaves office Haliburton will drop $100 million on him so fast it will make your head swim.

billybobama · 04-14-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sally Numor

It's not all that rosey and principled...Halliburton is still connected to Cheney...

I have been in business for 30 years. It is not as complicated as you try and make it. People try and make things complicated to hide the truth. Ever read a contract?

tyreay · 04-14-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vharlow

Yes, they are still paying him a salary he earned BEFORE he became Vice President. He earned it and by right should be paid it.

I agree he should be paid the defferred options. I never said this was wrong or illegal.
This has nothing to do with the conflict of interest provided by the award of a no bid contract. I would have no problem with this if they were the only ones qualified. They are not.(see my previous post concerning Sodexho, in this thread) This is the reason Halliburton stock sky rocketed. They have been given all the Military contracts FROM NOW ON. This is wrong, not a legal move and a conflict of interest as long as those stocks are in his name. Now, please tell me why those stocks are not in the 'special account', already.
Please just get it over with and address the real issue.
Also by the way, we both know if your husband has a defferred payment plan from his former employer then he also has a 401k. You do have a protfolio, you just don't do the trading.

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