| Conspiracy Theories Express your opinion on some alarming, intriguing, or even plain wacky theories. |
06-29-2007, 12:27 PM
|
#121 (permalink)
| | Council Member
Country: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Gender:
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 62 Posts
Level up: 58%, 39 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa Since there is no atmospere on the moon the lunar landing and take off site should be easily identifible, should it not?
Still waiting on that picture that no one can produce.... | Here ya go: Clementine Photos
The Clementine Lunar orbiter has taken photographs of the moon's surface. They're not detailed enough to see any small features on the surface such as a lunar module, but that hasn't stopped people looking. This is a composite picture of the area that Apollo 15 landed in. This mission spent 3 days on the moon's surface, far longer than earlier missions. This gave the astronauts more time to stir up dust in the surrounding area. This, coupled with the disturbance cause by the lander's rockets made enough of a mark on the lunar surface to be just visible on the photograph. The dark spot indicated by arrow A corresponds exactly to that landing site. Arrows B & C show recent meteor impacts.
Now I'd be the first to admit that this isn't conclusive proof, but still evidence and the clearest pictures we're going to get until the SELENE mission. Clementine Satellite Photos |
| |
06-29-2007, 12:30 PM
|
#122 (permalink)
| | Moderator
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA
Gender:
Posts: 3,509
Thanks: 175
Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts
Points: 10,001, Level: 66 | Level up: 67%, 49 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady Why don't we just point Hubble or some other big telescope at the moon to show the moon landing sites? Wouldn't that settle the argument once and for all?
If only it was that easy! The biggest problem with this is that they simply are not powerful enough. The lunar landers are very,very,very small in astronomical terms and they're pretty far away as well. There isn't a telescope in existence that could take a picture of one.
There are lots of mathematics we could show to demonstrate this, but's it's very complicated and we don't fully understand it anyway. But here's our abridged dumbed-down version. Size of Lunar Module. Let's be really generous and say 10m square. Distance between Hubble and Moon. About 350, 000km. This works out as an visual angle of (10m)/(3.5 x 10^8m) * (180/PI) = 1.6 x 10^-6 degrees = 6 milliarcseconds. The WFPC2 'telescope' on Hubble has the following resolution: 800x800 pixels of a 35 arcseconds field of view with a pixel scale of 46 milliarcseconds. Actually resolution in practice is a little below this. So what does this all mean? Well, roughly speaking, it means that the lunar lander would have to be 15 times larger before it would even cause a dot on a Hubble picture. Hubble Telescope |
This whole argument gotten pretty silly, hasn't it?
Of course, guys like "Intangible" only want to start this silly argument just to see themselves get contradicted on purpose. That's like a skinhead saying that the holocaust never existed, which we know it did. (Oh no, here come the conspiracy theorists).
__________________ Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105 |
| |
06-29-2007, 12:33 PM
|
#123 (permalink)
| | Super-duper Villiage Idiot
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cavalier Nation
Posts: 1,282
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Level up: 47%, 71 Points needed | | Just because there is no atmosphere on the moon doesn't mean the landing site couldn't have been wiped away. There are some things that happen in space that cannot be explained.
__________________ "The Cavaliers are my hero's!!" -Anti-Choice57 and John on a Band trip to Texas after The Cavaliers won the 2006 DCI World Championchips. VOTE John '28 "A Leader with a vision..." http://www.freewebs.com/johnforpresident |
| |
06-29-2007, 12:37 PM
|
#124 (permalink)
| | Moderator
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA
Gender:
Posts: 3,509
Thanks: 175
Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts
Points: 10,001, Level: 66 | Level up: 67%, 49 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by John Just because there is no atmosphere on the moon doesn't mean the landing site couldn't have been wiped away. There are some things that happen in space that cannot be explained. | Well, I guess I will have to watch the Sci_fi channel and view the X-Files. 
__________________ Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105 |
| |
06-29-2007, 12:42 PM
|
#125 (permalink)
| | Super-duper Villiage Idiot
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cavalier Nation
Posts: 1,282
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Level up: 47%, 71 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west Well, I guess I will have to watch the Sci_fi channel and view the X-Files.  | HAha funny. The site could have been wiped away from the shock wave of an exploding planet, or a collapsing star. There are also solar flares that could have wiped them away. Both shockwave and flare act as wind in space.
__________________ "The Cavaliers are my hero's!!" -Anti-Choice57 and John on a Band trip to Texas after The Cavaliers won the 2006 DCI World Championchips. VOTE John '28 "A Leader with a vision..." http://www.freewebs.com/johnforpresident |
| |
06-29-2007, 01:06 PM
|
#126 (permalink)
| | Moderator
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA
Gender:
Posts: 3,509
Thanks: 175
Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts
Points: 10,001, Level: 66 | Level up: 67%, 49 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by John HAha funny. The site could have been wiped away from the shock wave of an exploding planet, or a collapsing star. There are also solar flares that could have wiped them away. Both shockwave and flare act as wind in space. | Well, we'll never know until NASA (or whatever space agency there is) sends more men/women to the moon. I don't disagree with you on your post. Solar flares and solar wind. 
__________________ Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105 |
| |
06-29-2007, 01:23 PM
|
#127 (permalink)
| | Council Member
Country: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Gender:
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 62 Posts
Level up: 58%, 39 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by highway80west Well, we'll never know until NASA (or whatever space agency there is) sends more men/women to the moon. I don't disagree with you on your post. Solar flares and solar wind.  | Actually, I did post a picture of the Apollo 15 landing sight. This landing was longer (3 days) and more active then any other landing. They roamed around the surface with the little car, stirring up a bit of dust. Any other landing sites are just too small to be seen with the technology that we currently have. |
| |
06-29-2007, 01:32 PM
|
#128 (permalink)
| | Moderator
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA
Gender:
Posts: 3,509
Thanks: 175
Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts
Points: 10,001, Level: 66 | Level up: 67%, 49 Points needed | | Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady Actually, I did post a picture of the Apollo 15 landing sight. This landing was longer (3 days) and more active then any other landing. They roamed around the surface with the little car, stirring up a bit of dust. Any other landing sites are just too small to be seen with the technology that we currently have. | You must be as big a fan of the NASA moon landings as I am, Knot. There wasn't much dust at the landing sites at the "Sea/Ocean" area. But you're right. There had to been a lot of dust in the highlands.
And anyway, the Hubble needs to be repaired, too. Charles Duke talked to me about his experience on the moon. He was also the backup crew for Apollo 11. 
__________________ Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105 |
| |
07-05-2007, 06:27 AM
|
#129 (permalink)
| | Council Member
Country: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Gender:
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 62 Posts
Level up: 58%, 39 Points needed | | Hopefully to put this to rest once and for all.... On July 3rd, NGC repeated the show 'Conspiracy Moon Landing?' I made sure I watched it this time. Very interesting.
They had on there two of the conspiracy theorists. First, this one:
Bill Kaysing: Bill Kaysing
I would like to point out that in the show, this old guy lives in a trailer with about 30 cats. Every one of his theories was debunked by the real experts in the show.
Next, Ralph Rene:
Another guy who wants to sell you something, except Ralph has a book he'd like you to purchase. Content wise you won't find anything original, and plenty of poor science. Mr Rene's qualifications amount to being a "self taught engineer". I can only guess that by this he'd like you to think he's something like Issac Newton or something. Unfortunately all his daft theories and bizarre conclusions only show just how valuable a good education is. And research, it's valuable too, but it's a concept that Rene seems unfamiliar with. He'd rather guess and make things up.
You'll not be surprised to hear that Ralph's book is self published. But that hasn't stopped it becoming something of a bible for crank sites across the web.
The interesting thing about these two men is they make all these claims, yet have absolutely no proof at all. Bill Kaysing even talks about how the moon rocks were faked by some as yet unidentified ceramics lab that Nasa has.
Also, one of the experiments that Apollo 11 set up was a set of mirrors that a laser could be bounced off of from earth. FYI, this laser bouce has been happening roughly 240 times a year, every year since 1969. The man who runs the project kind of laughed and said "I don't know why these conspiracy people just don't ask me." SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Science -- Shooting the moon
Last edited by knot_e_lady; 07-05-2007 at 06:30 AM.
|
| |
07-05-2007, 10:25 PM
|
#130 (permalink)
| | Super-duper Villiage Idiot
Country: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cavalier Nation
Posts: 1,282
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Level up: 47%, 71 Points needed | | I could really care less what they say. We went to the moon, why is that so hard for people to believe. If the Russians could put a man in orbit, why couldn't we send someone to the moon?
__________________ "The Cavaliers are my hero's!!" -Anti-Choice57 and John on a Band trip to Texas after The Cavaliers won the 2006 DCI World Championchips. VOTE John '28 "A Leader with a vision..." http://www.freewebs.com/johnforpresident |
| | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | |