The X-Files should be brought back with those people in mind.

Yep...In fact the link search you provided actually linked up to X-Files in regards to the 7000 F catagory. ROTFLMAOL!!!

Coincidence? I think not. LOL!

You know, if people would just use a little common sense.

For example, the picture of the firemen and the CT's saying it was 2000 degrees. Common sense would tell you you wouldn't lean over a 400 degree barbecue, why would trained professionals lean over a 2000 degree fire!!!!

For God's Sake!!!

Bingo!

Ok you guys certainly got me on that one, I dont even know were I came up with such a high temp, my sites dont even say that. I sincerly apologize, and fully admit I was wrong. However, there were many hot spots that were much hotter than they should have been.

World Trade Center Hot Spots


jakeogh, 1 May 2008(created 30 January 200 | </SPAN>

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Site instructions: how to link to a page, ect.

Some notes:
1. The images below represent surface temperatures, the "optical depth" is at the most a few millimeters. (source)
2. Thermal Data was Used to Direct Firefighting Efforts
3. The WTC debris pile fire was oxygen-poor.


Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told AFP that he saw pools of “literally molten steel” at the World Trade Center. (source)
Source publication date: American Free Press 09/03/2002
Interviewer: Christopher Bollyn
Witness: Peter Tully
MMdate: "more than a month after the collapse" up to 10/11/01

Joe Allbaugh, the Director of FEMA, was interviewed by Bryant Gumbel of CBS news on October 10 2001:
GUMBEL: We’re seeing a lot of video of smoke pouring up from the debris.
ALLBAUGH: Correct.
GUMBEL: And we’re hearing there are places where temperatures are still approaching and sometimes exceeding a thousand degrees.
ALLBAUGH: That’s right.
GUMBEL: Why? Why do we have these hot spots? What’s going on?
ALLBAUGH: Well, you have normal debris, you know, computers, paper, you have some areas that are hot pockets because of fuel. It’s just too hot for rescuers to get into those areas. So we do not know yet what’s in those areas, other than very hot, molten material. (source_FEMA.gov)
Source publication date: CBS Early Show 10/04/01
Interviewer: Bryant Gumbel
Witness: Joe Allbaugh
MMdate: up to 10/04/01

Leslie Robertson, the structural engineer responsible for World Trade Centers 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and all subgrade levels, stated "As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running." (source_SEAU.org)
Source publication date: SEAU News Volume VI Issue II 10/2001
Interviewer: James M.Williams October 5, 2001 National Council of Structural Engineers Associations 9th Annual Conference.
Witness: Leslie Robertson
MMdate: up to 10/02/01

"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center." said the first structural engineer given access to the WTC steel. (source) (audio)

"I talked to many contractors and they said they actually saw molten metal trapped, beams had just totally had been melted because of the heat." said Chaplain Herb Trimpe (source) (audio)

A NY firefighter described steel flowing at ground zero. "You'd get down below and you'd see molten steel — molten steel! — running down the channel rails. Like you're in a foundry... like lava... from a volcano.

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A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams." (source) (cached_copy)
Source publication date: July/August 2002 Atlantic Monthly

The owner of Controlled Demolition Inc., Mark Loizeaux stated the molten steel was found “three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed,”. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon. (source)

Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet. -Sarah Atlas of New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue (source_upenn.edu)

"Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense," reports Alison Geyh, PhD. "In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel." (source_jhsph.edu)

A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. “Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s and the thousands who fled that disaster,” he said. Additionally he stated "Shards of steel lay upon shards of steel, shifting and unstable, uncovering red hot metal beams excavated from deep beneath layers of sub-floors, exposing further dark crevasses." (source_neha.org)

"They showed us many fascinating slides" he continued, "ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster." -Dr Keith Eaton (source_istructe.org.uk)

"Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots." -Guy Lounsbury of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing (source)

A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything from molten steel beams to human remains...." (source)

"the ominous groaning of weakened structures overhead, or, in the early days, the streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole." -William Langewiesche (source_p32)">(source_p32)" />(source_p32) http://nasathermalimages.com/images/BOOK_American_Ground_p32.png

He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam–but found no signs of life. -Lee Turner of The Boone County Firefighters (source)

“In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel,” Fuchek said. (source)

As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O'Toole saw a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, "was dripping from the molten steel." (source)

...numerous fires were still burning and smoldering. Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6. (source_9-11commission.gov) (2) (3)

Richard Garlock, a structural engineer for LERA said "Going below, it was smoky and really hot... The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running." (source)

Vance Deisingnore, OSHA Officer at WTC, reported the following to Jim McKay, Post-Gazette Staff Writer, on September 11, 2002 "a fire truck 10 feet below the ground that was still burning two weeks after the Tower collapsed, its metal so hot that it looked like a vat of molten steel." (source)

Father Edward A. Malloy, on site 40 days after the disaster stated "Firefighters atop a number of ladder trucks were spraying in the areas of greatest smoke. The average temperature beneath the rubble is said to be 1500F so that when steel is brought up it is molten and takes two or three days to cool down." (source_nd.edu)

Ed Pfister, a veteran of three hurricanes and two flood relief efforts, and a member of the elite Disaster Medical Assistance Team, wrote in his diary "deep below ground a portion of the pile was still on fire and boiled with molten material. Sometimes, open flame would erupt as a crane pulled debris out and air rushed in. Fire hoses constantly poured streams of water causing huge billowing steam clouds to rise up over the site into the huge lights above." (source_NIH.gov)
Source publication date: 10/30/2001
Interviewer: Rich McManus

Guy Lounsbury with the 109th Air Wing of the New York Air National Guard wrote "The men who work on this must constantly change their boots as the heat melts them. Two weeks after the attack, one fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers’ remains." (source)

A group of veteran ironworkers eating lunch while staring at the steel skeleton of a new building going up on West Third Street when one commented on "how much easier it was to eat a sandwich in front of steel that was strong and straight and new, not molten and mangled and laden with debris." (source)

Fire Department Chief Mike Donoho of Texas Task Force 1 Urban Search and Rescue described the scope of the destruction, "Everything had its own look. In the area surrounding what was the two twin towers, there were several buildings still standing that were burned from top to bottom, and some of them were damaged by the collapse. But the two towers — they were 110-story buildings. And there was nothing that you could put your hands on that resembled anything that would tell you this once was two 110-story office buildings. What you had were large columns of steel that were just stuck into massive amounts of molten steel and other metals, that had just fused together from the heat and bonded together from the strength of the collapse. We dug and we dug and we dug, and we cut and we cut and we cut, and we did not see anything that resembled any type of furniture, any type of personal belongings. We found some pieces of things like a telephone, things like that. I think we found credit cards a few times, and we found a couple of stuffed animals. But you would expect to see, like, a bunch of desks, a bunch of chairs. The only way I can explain it is, if you take a car and put it in one of those machines where they crush it and make it look like a cube, and you can’t recognize what it is, that’s what the whole area looked like. It looked like a massive, molten mess that had been fused together, like a car that had been cubed and crushed. With all that heavy, heavy stuff, there were wires, rebar, concrete. Most of it was just steel. A lot of what we were walking on was just molten steel. (source)

The workers go through three pairs of rubber boots a day because they melt in the three-week-old fire of molten metal and jet fuel. The health hazards are everywhere: the fire, molten metal, the lack of breathable air and 3000+ decomposing bodies. (source)

"In mid-October, in the evening," said Thomas A. Cahill, a retired professor of physics and atmospheric science at the University of California, Davis, "when they would pull out a steel beam, the lower part would be glowing dull red, which indicates a temperature on the order of 500 to 600 °C. And we know that people were turning over pieces of concrete in December that would flash into fire - which requires about 300 °C. So the surface of the pile cooled rather rapidly, but the bulk of the pile stayed hot all the way to December." (source_acs.org)

Some beams pulled from the wreckage are still red hot more than 7 weeks after the attack, and it is suspected that temperatures beneath the debris pile are well in excess of 1,000°F. (source)

New York mayor Rudy Giuliani said "They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days." (source)

Another danger involved the high temperature of twisted steel pulled from the rubble. Underground fires burned at temperatures up to 2,000 degrees. As the huge cranes pulled steel beams from the pile, safety experts worried about the effects of the extreme heat on the crane rigging and the hazards of contact with the hot steel. And they were concerned that applying water to cool the steel could cause a steam explosion that would propel nearby objects with deadly force. Special expertise was needed. OSHA called in structural engineers from its national office to assess the situation. They recommended a special handling procedure, including the use of specialized rigging and instruments to reduce the hazards. (source_OSHA.gov)

The "hot spots", where intensely burning debris generated temperatures in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit, posed a significant danger to relief workers. NASA had an instrument that could provide information that would be useful to emergency responders. NASA's Airborne Visible infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) science instrument was capable of providing data that could be used to filter smoke and locate extreme hot spots. (source_erau.edu)

The temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials (source)

Firefighters and other responders contended with intense heat associated with the super-heated steel for weeks; some were coming back from shifts with the bottoms of their boots melted. (source_gwu.edu)

Two weeks after the attack, the rubble, the Pile, is still 7 stories tall. Below, in the Pit it burns like the gates of hell. It is 1200 degrees, so hot that the steel work lifted by the grapplers comes out soft. I've never seen anything like this". (source)

"The fires are so hot in pockets on the Pile that some of the firefighters change boots 3-4 times a day. Smoke and flame come up from the Pit deep within the Pile when a piece of heavy equipment with a huge grappler pulls out a mass that allows a swish of oxygen inside". (source)

Firemen and hazardous materials experts stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about it based on other fires." (source) (cached_copy)

Ground Zero at the World Trade Center was a search site like few others after a major disaster event. Multiple sources of hazards were everywhere. There were shards of steel piled on steel, a two-million-ton pile of debris, red hot steel beams still being pulled from the earth, crevasses, holes, unstable ground, still burning fires, possible asbestos exposure, and caustic fumes that may have contained mixtures of benzene, methane gas and other chemicals. (source_p1) (source)

"The first indication of "Ground Zero" is the smoke. It's still smoking. Many of the beams are still red hot as they are uncovered, and start new fires as the oxygen reaches them." -Congressman Pete Hoekstra (source)

The pile of debris after 30 days of removal operations was still gigantic, over three stories high, with structural steel projecting 7-10 stories into the air. The steam, dust, noise, steel and myriad activities were larger than anything I have ever seen. Temperatures in the pile were over 1,200 °F. Every time an area was opened, fire started in any buried combustible debris. Water trucks and fire engines were used continually. The high temperature debris and water created steam. (source_army.mil) (cached_copy)

"It was determined that 3 million gallons of water were hosed on site in the fire-fighting efforts between 9/11 and 9/21"... "In addition, there were 2 episodes of rain during the same 10 day period after the attack: on 9/14 and 9/20, totaling 0.9 million gallons of water per Bathtub area. Considering the neighboring area, one can take 1 million gallons from the rain. Therefore, a total of 4 million gallons of water percolated through the debris in the first 10 days and collected at the bottom of the Bathtub." (source_llnl.gov)

2000 gallons of Pyrocool FEF foaming agent were sprayed on the "pile" starting September 28th. (source)

"You couldn't even begin to imagine how much water was pumped in there," said Tom Manley of the Uniformed Firefighters Association, the largest fire department union. "It was like you were creating a giant lake." (source)

"When I am not moving, I notice that the soles of my boots are melting from the heat inside the pile of debris." (source)

"As in a stubborn coal mine fire, the combustion taking place deep below the surface is in many places not a fire at all. Instead, oxygen is charring the surfaces of buried fuels in a slow burn more akin to what is seen in the glowing coals of a raked-over campfire. But the scale of the trade center burning is vast, with thousands of plastic computers, acres of flammable carpet, tons of office furniture and steel and reservoirs of hydraulic oil and other fuels piled upon one another. Steel beams pulled from the debris at times are so hot they are cherry red. Benzene, propylene, styrene and other chemicals generated by the combustion of computers, office products and fuels drift through the air." (source)

Soon after the collapses. (source)


Red Hot Debris. The removal of debris from the collapsed areas requires the safe lifting and maneuvering of very heavy steel beams, often twisted and tangled from the force of the collapse. Some beams pulled from the wreckage are still red hot more than 7 weeks after the attack, and it is suspected that temperatures beneath the debris pile are well in excess of 1,000°F. (source)

John Gross of NIST giving a lecture at the University of Texas


SPOT satellite image of Manhattan, using the HRVIR (High Resolution Visible Infra Red instrument) on SPOT 4, acquired on September 11 at 11:55 AM EST, 3 hours after two planes crashed into the World Trade Center. The colors result from the use of infrared bands to identify the actual fire hot spots (see red spots near the base of the smoke plume). The SPOT satellites orbit at an altitude of 822 km. (c) CNES/SPOT Image 2001 (full_image)
Resolution: 20 meters; Acquisition time: 09/11/01 11:55 AM EDT; Orbital altitude: 822 km
Band combination: Not specified, but presumed to be:
R 0.79 - 0.89um
G 0.61 - 0.68um
B 0.50 - 0.59um
(source)

As part of the World Trade Center disaster response, the NASA Airborne Visible/Infrared Imaging Spectrometer (AVIRIS) was flown over the site on the 16th and 18th of September 2001. AVIRIS measures the solar reflected spectrum from 370 to 2500-nm at 10-nm sampling. For this flight the data were acquired at 1.5-m spatial sampling with image coverage of the entire disaster site. AVIRIS measurements are spectrally, radiometrically, spatially calibrated in the laboratory and validated in flight. Rapid examination of the World Trade Center AVIRIS data in the 2300 nm spectral region showed numerous high radiance targets indicative of burning fires. A new spectroscopic algorithm was implemented to simultaneously solve for the temperature and fractional area of the fires. This algorithm uses the Planck function in conjunction with the full spectral shape measured by AVIRIS to determine the temperature and fractional area of the fire. This spectral algorithm overcomes the ambiguity between temperature and area that exists in single-spectral-band temperature estimation methods. With these AVIRIS data set and new algorithm, 8 hot spot zones were identified in the September 16th data with temperatures ranging from 700K to 1019K and fractional areas from 1.1 to 18%. Analysis of the data set acquired on September 18th showed 7 of the hot spot zones still present with temperatures ranging from 471K to 952K and fractional areas from 0.5 to 36%. These imaging spectrometer derived physical parameters of fire temperature and fractional-area were found useful to the personnel making decisions on the ground. The complete set measurements, analyses, and results of this effort are reported in this paper. (source)

WTC Meteorite

jakeogh, 4 February 2008(created 4 December 2007) | </SPAN>

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The U.S. Customs House stored a large arsenal of firearms at its Six World Trade Center office. During recovery efforts, several handguns were found at Ground Zero, including these two cylindrical gun-casing remains and a revolver embedded in concrete. Fire temperatures were so intense that concrete melted like lava around anything in it's path. (source)

The melting point of concrete varies between 1800-2500°C (3272-4532°F) (source)

(right click and "view image" to see full si(source)
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Color corrected images source
This display is also discussed in the book Defining Memory on page 259


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Image Notes

So Grace, does this mean you are waving the white flag?

Hint Grace...

Re-edit your post and down size the pictures...You've got the page scrolling to where not only are the pictures unviewable unless one scrolls to the right, but it's messing up the ability to respond to any posts as well...

Save the pictures to your computer...Open them up in 'Paint' on your computer...Size down picture by 50%...Save to Photobucket or other on-line album saver...Then use the 'insert image' icon on the top of your post and put in the picture url addy....

Then you'll have a nice neat post, that is easily read by everyone, as well as easily responded to instead of having to scroll halfway across one's screen to find the 'post' window...