NSA wiretapping: a bigger issue than thought - Page 3

Jefferson · 05-30-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aMFliberal

How would any of us be able to prove there are terrorists in the United States? They would be in jail or dead.

You can't - until they've "done the deed". And by then it's too late.

That's why (immediately after 9-11) there was a national outcry for the government to do a better job of protecting Americans from terrorists.

Perhaps that's exactly what our government has done.

foundit66 · 05-30-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Now that was a really, really stupid rant.
Prove to me that there are NO TERRORISTS operating within the US. Prove to me that there are NO TERRORISTS trying to get into the US.

Talk about demanding proof of a negative...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

I don't give a crap if the NSA knows what numbers I've dialed from my cell phone. In fact, maybe they should listen in. They might learn something worth knowing.

You don't? How good for you.
The rest of us aren't as willing to throw our rights out the window when something comes along that spooks us.

As an analogy, I will acknowledge that drug pushers do exist in this country. I'm not going to pretend that there are "NO DRUG PUSHERS".
But is the existence of drug pushers all that is necessary to justify a wire-tap or invasion of privacy?
Heck no. Just because drug pushers exist does not mean that cops get to search my house or tap my phone without due cause.

So, while you may be willing to give up your rights for no good reason at all, please respect and acknowledge the rights of others who are not so willing...

Jefferson · 05-30-2006, 12:57 PM

[quote=foundit66]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Now that was a really, really stupid rant.
Prove to me that there are NO TERRORISTS operating within the US. Prove to me that there are NO TERRORISTS trying to get into the US.[/quote
Talk about demanding proof of a negative...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

You don't? How good for you.
The rest of us aren't as willing to throw our rights out the window when something comes along that spooks us.

As an analogy, I will acknowledge that drug pushers do exist in this country. I'm not going to pretend that there are "NO DRUG PUSHERS".
But is the existence of drug pushers all that is necessary to justify a wire-tap or invasion of privacy?
Heck no. Just because drug pushers exist does not mean that cops get to search my house or tap my phone without due cause.

So, while you may be willing to give up your rights for no good reason at all, please respect and acknowledge the rights of others who are not so willing...

Good lord that's stupid - and a piss poor analogy.

When you have NO IDEA what I'm responding to, or talking about, you really shouldn't make stupid comments like this.

The NSA having (supposedly) a record of phone numbers you've called is NOT (as was claimed earlier) "search and seizure".

Read before you type. You MIGHT just look less foolish.

foundit66 · 05-30-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Good lord that's stupid - and a piss poor analogy.
When you have NO IDEA what I'm responding to, or talking about, you really shouldn't make stupid comments like this.

And yet again, all Jefferson does is insult without actually making an argument.
No actual explanation as to what was wrong with my response, but plenty of pretense that it was wrong...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

The NSA having (supposedly) a record of phone numbers you've called is NOT (as was claimed earlier) "search and seizure".

YOU specifically mentioned: "In fact, maybe they should listen in. They might learn something worth knowing."

Thus, my comments.

And look at the title of this thread. It talks about NSA WIRE-TAPPING.

My comments were entirely topical.

But please. Continue to insult me as you ignore everything I said...

Jefferson · 05-30-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

And yet again, all Jefferson does is insult without actually making an argument.
No actual explanation as to what was wrong with my response, but plenty of pretense that it was wrong...

YOU specifically mentioned: "In fact, maybe they should listen in. They might learn something worth knowing."

Thus, my comments.

And look at the title of this thread. It talks about NSA WIRE-TAPPING.

My comments were entirely topical.

But please. Continue to insult me as you ignore everything I said...

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Having access to phone numbers received and called IS NOT THE SAME AS WIRETAPPING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? IT IS NOT THE SAME.

In addition, 2 of the 3 companies that this "reporter" claimed gave information to the NSA have said they ABSOLUTELY DID NOT GIVE THAT INFORMATION OUT.

Personally, I don't care if the NSA has a record of calls received and dialed from my phone. It's NOTHING NEW. There's NOTHING THERE.

Unfortunately, you simply do NOT understand what they're doing. IF ANYTHING, they simply have computures looking for matches of known terrorist connections.

This is NOT search and seizure.
This is NOT wiretapping.
This is NOT listening to phone conversations.

Good grief.

foundit66 · 05-30-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Having access to phone numbers received and called IS NOT THE SAME AS WIRETAPPING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? IT IS NOT THE SAME.

Do you see any statement of mine demonstrating that I don't understand that?

I have been specifically talking about one thing. WIRE-TAPPING phones.

If you have a comment about my comments on WIRE-TAPPING, then please make one.

Asking if I understand the difference between accessing phone numbers received and wire-tapping is a non-sequitur, and irrelevant to my comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Unfortunately, you simply do NOT understand what they're doing. IF ANYTHING, they simply have computures looking for matches of known terrorist connections.

Really?
Is that what they told you they were doing?
Or is it just conjecture on what you hope their doing?

WIRE-TAPPING American citizens without a warrant is illegal.
I realize getting a list of phone numbers that have received / made phone connections is not wire-tapping. I'm not talking about that.

WIRE-TAPPING American citizens without a warrant is illegal.

Jefferson · 05-30-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Do you see any statement of mine demonstrating that I don't understand that?

I have been specifically talking about one thing. WIRE-TAPPING phones.

If you have a comment about my comments on WIRE-TAPPING, then please make one.

Asking if I understand the difference between accessing phone numbers received and wire-tapping is a non-sequitur, and irrelevant to my comments.

Really?
Is that what they told you they were doing?
Or is it just conjecture on what you hope their doing?

WIRE-TAPPING American citizens without a warrant is illegal.
I realize getting a list of phone numbers that have received / made phone connections is not wire-tapping. I'm not talking about that.

WIRE-TAPPING American citizens without a warrant is illegal.

This thread is NOT about WIRE-TAPPING, idiot.

foundit66 · 05-30-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

This thread is NOT about WIRE-TAPPING, idiot.

1) YOU specifically mentioned wire-tapping, prompting my response.
If you want to complain about what this thread is "NOT" about, then I recommend you look in the mirror.

2) Title of this thread: "NSA wiretapping: a bigger issue than thought".
It should be obvious to the simplest of fools that NSA "WIRE-TAPPING" is at least part of what this thread is about...

3) Do you want to continue a discussion about wire-tapping on a "wire-tapping" thread?
Or is your response just a ploy to avoid such a discussion, as you know the president's actions were illegal and you just don't want to talk about it?

Jefferson · 05-30-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

1) YOU specifically mentioned wire-tapping, prompting my response.

2) Title of this thread: "NSA wiretapping: a bigger issue than thought"

3) Do you want to continue a discussion about wire-tapping on a "wire-tapping" thread?
Or is your response just a ploy to avoid such a discussion, as you know the president's actions were illegal and you just don't want to talk about it?

The original article cited is about 3 phone companies ALLEGEDLY sharing phone numbers with the NSA.

That is NOT wire-tapping.

So go ahead and keep post-humping me here, but you're wrong. Again. This thread is NOT about wire-tapping.

foundit66 · 05-30-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

The original article cited is about 3 phone companies ALLEGEDLY sharing phone numbers with the NSA.
That is NOT wire-tapping.

Okay. This is going to be tough for you, but bear with it...
Here's a relatively simple question. I've even dumbed it down for you so it's "yes/no", but feel free to elaborate on your response if you feel you need to.

Here it goes...
Have I EVER claimed that "sharing phone numbers with the NSA" is "wire-tapping"?

Come on. You can answer it. It's such a simple question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

So go ahead and keep post-humping me here, but you're wrong. Again. This thread is NOT about wire-tapping.

0) Blind contradiction is not an argument. To argue against you on your diminutive level, maybe I should just say "Yes it is..."

1) YOU specifically mentioned wire-tapping, prompting my response.

2) Title of this thread: "NSA wiretapping: a bigger issue than thought"

3) Do you want to continue a discussion about wire-tapping on a "wire-tapping" thread?
Or is your response just a ploy to avoid such a discussion, as you know the president's actions were illegal and you just don't want to talk about it?

View Poll Results: Should the NSA keep up its wiretapping of American phone conversations?
Sure why not. Anything to catch terrorists.	2	18.18%
Yeah, but it should be limited to calls made outside the country, not within.	1	9.09%
I have no idea.	0	0%
Keep the government out of my life.	8	72.73%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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