Defending the Truth

Hitler left virtually no troops on the Maginot line on the west. He spent all his energy on the russians who defeated hitler on their own and started drawing in on germany and evntually made it all the way to berlin.

He had nothing left to attack Britain with. This extreme view that the third reich would have taken over the world but for the US is really an exagerration. What i would advise you to do is to consult some history books about that. Nazi governance depended on fear and propoganda. That model has never worked in history. What exactly makes you think that it would have worked for hitler?

I'm not discounting the US effort at the time. However the US seems to think that Europe should eternally kiss the US imperial ass for their benevolence in helping us out. Its THAT attitude that makes us think americans ridiculous. Thankfully not all of you are like that

Hitler did not NEED any troops on the Maginot Line (another example of French stupidity). It was long-since over-run, and firmly in control of the Nazis.

Had Hitler attacked Great Britain INSTEAD of Russia, there is NO QUESTION what would have happened.

Would the Nazis have been able to peacefully govern and entire continent? No. But you'll notice that I've never said they would - much like I've never said they would have "taken over the world". However, I will restate that if it HAD NOT BEEN FOR THE UNITED STATES, the Nazis would have taken over all of Europe. In addition, they probably would have had adequate military strength to take over Russia - something they nearly did anyway.

And, quite frankly, Europe CAN continue to kiss America's ass - regardless of WWII.

Im from Poland and I will not kiss your ass because american have halped to win 2 War World
What You have waited for (untill 1944) when Hitler has killed 30 milion people in Europe???
And when Russian were fighted almost his hands with german tanks You just sit and did nothing???
They've lost ~60 milion people untill they have reached east Berlin!!!
And You ~70 thousands?
Poland has lost ~6 milion people
I think if not Russia 2 War World would be for You second Vietnam.
You dont care about any nation but only your USA
Second thing is that West countrys sell Poland Czech Republic Hungary and many other to Stalin for his gold. And You are happy for that?
Im not happy with communism in my country for almost 50 years.
Learn history.

I can't argue against your comments that America should have been involved earlier in WW II.

But I have to note some irony in your comments, and the current situation regarding the U.S. invasion of Iraq. One situation of not wanting to get involved when we should. Another situation of getting involved, when a lot of people said we shouldn't.

My how times have changed?
The irony of it all...

Jefferson, frankly I really don't care how many fallacies you provide when it comes to the political scene, I don't really care any more if you just blame everything on the ultra-liberals or something like that. But one thing that I can not stand for is historical fallacies for the benifit of the image of one or another.

I'll definitely believe my history professor and my countless WWII books that are sitting on my shelf, more than someone blaring off with no sources, any day. Your arguement is riddled with historical inconsistencies and fallacies. One, if Hitler hadn't invaded Russia, Russia would have invaded Germany months after. Essentially the Soviet Union just prior to WWII was very unprepared for a large scale war with Nazi Germany. Both Hitler and Stalin knew perfectly well that a Nazi-Soviet war was on the horizon, it was just a question of when. The Non-Agression Pact served as two purposes, one, so that Stalin could get ready for the war, and two, so that Hitler could quickly knock out France and its allies before he would continue with his plans in Eastern Europe without being put on a two front war; as he knew that two fronts was the mistake in WWI. After the signing of the Non-Agression Pact, it was a race to see who could backstab the other first.

Hitler won when he invaded Russia in 1941, some months prior to when the Soviets planned on the war happening. It was on this front with Russia that most of the Second World War took place. Some 30 million Russians died in the Second World War, about over half of the deaths of the entire war including those who lost their lives in the holocaust. The Russians lost many times more men in just single battles than the Americans did on both of its entire war frontiers. It is safe to say that United States played an important role in the war; but most certainly not Europe's saviour. Had it not been for the United States, more would have died in a long bloody campaign by the British and Russians putting Germany on two fronts. The British had in fact lost many more troops in WWI than it had in WWII. The Russians, being well-clothed for the cold Russian winter as opposed to the German troops, would have beat back the Germans all the way to Berlin just as it had done in the real war. The most thing you could say about the United States entering in the war, is that it did however save countless more lives, and possibly saved more of Germany from post-war Soviet hegemony. But definetly NOT the sovereignty of all of Europe.

I'm going to post this again, you college cry-baby. You know why? Because it's true.

1. The Maginot Line was a stupid French idea. By the time they made it, it was outdated. And by "later" in the war, the Nazis had LONG SINCE passed the Maginot line. WHAT I WROTE IT TRUE.

2. It does NOT matter that both Hitler and Stalin believed that "war was inevitable". Had Hitler focused his efforts on Great Britain, instead of spreading out the Nazi War Machine, he WOULD HAVE CONQUERED BRITAIN. Unless, of course, the United States intervened.

3. Point still stands.

4. Absolutely true. It is a matter of historic fact. They had ALREADY CONQUERED most of Europe. If your "history teacher" tells you otherwise, she's an idiot.

5. You'll notice I wrote "probably". Boy... for supposedly being a college student, your reading comprehension is pretty low. Hitler got greedy - and he got stupid. Had they been fighting Russia, in Russia, in the SUMMER - things would have turned out differently. Had they NOT tried to "bite off more than they could chew" things would PROBABLY have turned out differently.


Either your college teachers aren't doing a very good job of teaching, or you're not doing a very good job of learning. I suspect a little of both.

Let's stick to realistic questions.

Is German your first language - because English sure as heck isn't.

Jefferson you can believe what you like. But as for me I'm going to believe historians.

Jefferson is arguing something that nobody will ever know or can know, so who cares? What happened, happened.