Defending the Truth

hevusa · 03-23-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

HAHA I love that, that is good. You are trying to piss me off I guess. Well, you have a little. I think I would be a better American if I were to kill you. No I wouldn't be like our government and kill our own people as you say, since you are a genius and know so much. I am humbled.

Just realize that the patterns in our nations capital were very carefully planned. What that means exactly I obviously can't say for sure, but I do think it directly relates to why we are at war with Iraq currently.

I think it is a shame that brave men, such as yourself, are risking your life for what you believe is a just cause when the truth may be anything but just.

hevusa · 03-23-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Here is a movie that brings up many interesting points about 9/11. While I don't support everything presented I would love to hear what you guys think. Especially the conservatives in here.

Movie about 9/11 (It's about 20 minutes long)

Wow what a great educational film. I especially like the massive conspiracy of the twin towers collapsing, and if daunting question of if the terrorists have the capability of setting explosives inside the tower, well they obivously do have the capabilty of building some pretty good expolisives, just think of all of those IEDs Improvised Explosive devices that have killled so many pawns, Also what will melt through steel like butter is aluminium, you can not put out a fire from burning aluminium. When it is in thin sheets, like an 300,000lbs boeing it melts easily. So that whole arguement about that was baseless in my opinion, I think the 300,000lbs aircraft with all the fuel on board could easily take down a building like that. Also, the building crashed down therefore making it appear as if it were being slowly blown up. That other building was empty if I am not mistaken, and it was not the main focus of the american people, the two towers would have sufficed to have, scared the american people. It was a pretty good propaganda flick but I really don't base anything on it, there are many good arguements against practically everything in it.

Roger that. Even if the towers did come down from the impact of the planes there are many other questions surrounding the events of 9/11 that seem sketchy. Can you explain in greater detail about the aluminium through steel. I am honestly interested.

phil achio · 03-24-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Here is a movie that brings up many interesting points about 9/11. While I don't support everything presented I would love to hear what you guys think. Especially the conservatives in here.

Movie about 9/11 (It's about 20 minutes long)

Wow what a great educational film. I especially like the massive conspiracy of the twin towers collapsing, and if daunting question of if the terrorists have the capability of setting explosives inside the tower, well they obivously do have the capabilty of building some pretty good expolisives, just think of all of those IEDs Improvised Explosive devices that have killled so many pawns, Also what will melt through steel like butter is aluminium, you can not put out a fire from burning aluminium. When it is in thin sheets, like an 300,000lbs boeing it melts easily. So that whole arguement about that was baseless in my opinion, I think the 300,000lbs aircraft with all the fuel on board could easily take down a building like that. Also, the building crashed down therefore making it appear as if it were being slowly blown up. That other building was empty if I am not mistaken, and it was not the main focus of the american people, the two towers would have sufficed to have, scared the american people. It was a pretty good propaganda flick but I really don't base anything on it, there are many good arguements against practically everything in it.

Roger that. Even if the towers did come down from the impact of the planes there are many other questions surrounding the events of 9/11 that seem sketchy. Can you explain in greater detail about the aluminium through steel. I am honestly interested.

The one instance that I know of was aboard an aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. The internet source that I found does not speak of the actual aluminum igniting, but a Naval Captian of 26 years explained it to me. A zuni rocket was accidentally fired from John Mccains fighter jet and hit a fuel tank causing a massive fire that eventually got hot enough to melt aluminum (aluminum's melting point is 1,221F 660C Source: ASM Metals Reference Book, 3rd edition, ASM International , Materials Park, OH 1993) The second source has the best information on the topic. The third source is interesting and shows how hot it can get. Also keep in mind that there are a number of water pipes inside the building, therefore when the water inside heats in the pipes it will explode like a pipe bomb. http://forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm
www.dmanuta.com/dmm/boehlert1.doc
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTMilitaireUsages.html

hevusa · 03-24-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Here is a movie that brings up many interesting points about 9/11. While I don't support everything presented I would love to hear what you guys think. Especially the conservatives in here.

Movie about 9/11 (It's about 20 minutes long)

Wow what a great educational film. I especially like the massive conspiracy of the twin towers collapsing, and if daunting question of if the terrorists have the capability of setting explosives inside the tower, well they obivously do have the capabilty of building some pretty good expolisives, just think of all of those IEDs Improvised Explosive devices that have killled so many pawns, Also what will melt through steel like butter is aluminium, you can not put out a fire from burning aluminium. When it is in thin sheets, like an 300,000lbs boeing it melts easily. So that whole arguement about that was baseless in my opinion, I think the 300,000lbs aircraft with all the fuel on board could easily take down a building like that. Also, the building crashed down therefore making it appear as if it were being slowly blown up. That other building was empty if I am not mistaken, and it was not the main focus of the american people, the two towers would have sufficed to have, scared the american people. It was a pretty good propaganda flick but I really don't base anything on it, there are many good arguements against practically everything in it.

Roger that. Even if the towers did come down from the impact of the planes there are many other questions surrounding the events of 9/11 that seem sketchy. Can you explain in greater detail about the aluminium through steel. I am honestly interested.

The one instance that I know of was aboard an aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. The internet source that I found does not speak of the actual aluminum igniting, but a Naval Captian of 26 years explained it to me. A zuni rocket was accidentally fired from John Mccains fighter jet and hit a fuel tank causing a massive fire that eventually got hot enough to melt aluminum (aluminum's melting point is 1,221F 660C Source: ASM Metals Reference Book, 3rd edition, ASM International , Materials Park, OH 1993) The second source has the best information on the topic. The third source is interesting and shows how hot it can get. Also keep in mind that there are a number of water pipes inside the building, therefore when the water inside heats in the pipes it will explode like a pipe bomb. http://forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm
www.dmanuta.com/dmm/boehlert1.doc
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTMilitaireUsages.html

All very interesting but still the temperatures are not hot enough to bend steel. Aluminum's melting point is almost 300 degrees less than steel.

phil achio · 03-25-2005, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Here is a movie that brings up many interesting points about 9/11. While I don't support everything presented I would love to hear what you guys think. Especially the conservatives in here.

Movie about 9/11 (It's about 20 minutes long)

Wow what a great educational film. I especially like the massive conspiracy of the twin towers collapsing, and if daunting question of if the terrorists have the capability of setting explosives inside the tower, well they obivously do have the capabilty of building some pretty good expolisives, just think of all of those IEDs Improvised Explosive devices that have killled so many pawns, Also what will melt through steel like butter is aluminium, you can not put out a fire from burning aluminium. When it is in thin sheets, like an 300,000lbs boeing it melts easily. So that whole arguement about that was baseless in my opinion, I think the 300,000lbs aircraft with all the fuel on board could easily take down a building like that. Also, the building crashed down therefore making it appear as if it were being slowly blown up. That other building was empty if I am not mistaken, and it was not the main focus of the american people, the two towers would have sufficed to have, scared the american people. It was a pretty good propaganda flick but I really don't base anything on it, there are many good arguements against practically everything in it.

Roger that. Even if the towers did come down from the impact of the planes there are many other questions surrounding the events of 9/11 that seem sketchy. Can you explain in greater detail about the aluminium through steel. I am honestly interested.

The one instance that I know of was aboard an aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. The internet source that I found does not speak of the actual aluminum igniting, but a Naval Captian of 26 years explained it to me. A zuni rocket was accidentally fired from John Mccains fighter jet and hit a fuel tank causing a massive fire that eventually got hot enough to melt aluminum (aluminum's melting point is 1,221F 660C Source: ASM Metals Reference Book, 3rd edition, ASM International , Materials Park, OH 1993) The second source has the best information on the topic. The third source is interesting and shows how hot it can get. Also keep in mind that there are a number of water pipes inside the building, therefore when the water inside heats in the pipes it will explode like a pipe bomb. http://forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm
www.dmanuta.com/dmm/boehlert1.doc
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTMilitaireUsages.html

All very interesting but still the temperatures are not hot enough to bend steel. Aluminum's melting point is almost 300 degrees less than steel.

Ignition and melting are totally different things. The metal will be in liquid form before it ignites, but once it ignites it will be extremely hot. Much higher than the melting point. Take Magnesium for instance, haven't you ever ignited magnesium in chemistry? Aluminum burns at a higher temp. than magnesium.

hevusa · 03-25-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil achio

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

Here is a movie that brings up many interesting points about 9/11. While I don't support everything presented I would love to hear what you guys think. Especially the conservatives in here.

Movie about 9/11 (It's about 20 minutes long)

Wow what a great educational film. I especially like the massive conspiracy of the twin towers collapsing, and if daunting question of if the terrorists have the capability of setting explosives inside the tower, well they obivously do have the capabilty of building some pretty good expolisives, just think of all of those IEDs Improvised Explosive devices that have killled so many pawns, Also what will melt through steel like butter is aluminium, you can not put out a fire from burning aluminium. When it is in thin sheets, like an 300,000lbs boeing it melts easily. So that whole arguement about that was baseless in my opinion, I think the 300,000lbs aircraft with all the fuel on board could easily take down a building like that. Also, the building crashed down therefore making it appear as if it were being slowly blown up. That other building was empty if I am not mistaken, and it was not the main focus of the american people, the two towers would have sufficed to have, scared the american people. It was a pretty good propaganda flick but I really don't base anything on it, there are many good arguements against practically everything in it.

Roger that. Even if the towers did come down from the impact of the planes there are many other questions surrounding the events of 9/11 that seem sketchy. Can you explain in greater detail about the aluminium through steel. I am honestly interested.

The one instance that I know of was aboard an aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. The internet source that I found does not speak of the actual aluminum igniting, but a Naval Captian of 26 years explained it to me. A zuni rocket was accidentally fired from John Mccains fighter jet and hit a fuel tank causing a massive fire that eventually got hot enough to melt aluminum (aluminum's melting point is 1,221F 660C Source: ASM Metals Reference Book, 3rd edition, ASM International , Materials Park, OH 1993) The second source has the best information on the topic. The third source is interesting and shows how hot it can get. Also keep in mind that there are a number of water pipes inside the building, therefore when the water inside heats in the pipes it will explode like a pipe bomb. http://forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm
www.dmanuta.com/dmm/boehlert1.doc
http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/QTMilitaireUsages.html

All very interesting but still the temperatures are not hot enough to bend steel. Aluminum's melting point is almost 300 degrees less than steel.

Ignition and melting are totally different things. The metal will be in liquid form before it ignites, but once it ignites it will be extremely hot. Much higher than the melting point. Take Magnesium for instance, haven't you ever ignited magnesium in chemistry? Aluminum burns at a higher temp. than magnesium.

How does it all relate to the steel though? You keep referring to aluminum.

onthefence · 03-25-2005, 09:32 AM

I think he is refering to how hot aluminum burns, once ignited it is very difficult to extinguish.

For example if an aircraft on the deck of an aircraft carrier is burning the SOP is to jettison it over the side.

Aluminum is much lighter than steel and relatively strong. Since it doesn't rust, it seems like the ideal metal for ships. However, no one uses aluminum for fighting ships because it can catch fire when hit, which produces intense heat that cannot be extinguished with water or regular fire extinguishers. In fact, aluminum is so volatile that powdered aluminum is a prime component in rocket fuel

The British built a few frigates with aluminum in the 1970s. During the Falklands war, one of these ships, the HMS Sheffield, was hit by a single Exocet anti-ship missile. The damage was not fatal since the missile failed to explode, but its rocket fuel torched the Sheffield's aluminum hull, which ignited and burned until it sank. In contrast, the steel hull frigate USS Stark was hit by two Iraqi Exocet missiles in 1988 and survived.

duncanmac · 03-25-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

All very interesting but still the temperatures are not hot enough to bend steel

If you heat something like steel,it will bend easier than if it was not heated.That along with the pressure from all the weight above it will make it bend alot easier and quicker.

hevusa · 03-25-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncanmac

Quote:

All very interesting but still the temperatures are not hot enough to bend steel

If you heat something like steel,it will bend easier than if it was not heated.That along with the pressure from all the weight above it will make it bend alot easier and quicker.

But that still doesn't explain how the fire reached 1500F (which it could not have).

duncanmac · 03-26-2005, 11:30 AM

Heating steel will make it bend easier.Pressure will make steel bend easier.Combine the two factors and they will have an effect far greater than either of the two alone.That means it will take a lot less heat when combined with the pressure of the weight above.
I am not an engineer(nor do I play one on TV

)Practical experience with these kinds of things go a lot further than just theoritical thinking.

03-25-2005, 09:32 AM		#57 (permalink)
	onthefence Beer Man Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: stuck in the middle Posts: 4,786 Country: Thanks: 89 Thanked 230 Times in 140 Posts	I think he is refering to how hot aluminum burns, once ignited it is very difficult to extinguish. For example if an aircraft on the deck of an aircraft carrier is burning the SOP is to jettison it over the side. Aluminum is much lighter than steel and relatively strong. Since it doesn't rust, it seems like the ideal metal for ships. However, no one uses aluminum for fighting ships because it can catch fire when hit, which produces intense heat that cannot be extinguished with water or regular fire extinguishers. In fact, aluminum is so volatile that powdered aluminum is a prime component in rocket fuel The British built a few frigates with aluminum in the 1970s. During the Falklands war, one of these ships, the HMS Sheffield, was hit by a single Exocet anti-ship missile. The damage was not fatal since the missile failed to explode, but its rocket fuel torched the Sheffield's aluminum hull, which ignited and burned until it sank. In contrast, the steel hull frigate USS Stark was hit by two Iraqi Exocet missiles in 1988 and survived. "We could not now take time for further search or consideration, our victuals being much spent, especially our beer." - William Bradford Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right..... Now offering premium membership for only $25.00!! Click here to get started.!

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