waitingtables

You still haven't read how it would happen, I guess. It isn't going to be deficit spending.

yzerman19wingnut

Then I suppose you can show me the numbers and sources of where all the money is going to come from? If it's not going to be tax increases as you have stated before and if it's not going to come from new debt then are you going to materialize it out of a void in the air like a magician?

The U.S. budget is in a deficit. Even if the president were to spend one extra dollar on a pack of chewing gum over the budgeted amount alloted for presidential expenses it would be deficit spending. So how in the hell are you going to fund a trillion dollar medical program?

yzerman19wingnut

Are you perhaps going to lower the income line and take some people off free healthcare? Cutting services is the only way besides tax increases and deficit spending.

waitingtables

Why don't you read the links that are included at the bottom of the second post? It clearly shows how to go about this.

yzerman19wingnut

Why don't you answer the question. Either way you proceed it's going to collapse.

1. If you raise taxes to pay for it people will stop buying as many things because they wont be able to afford them and the economy will tank. Hell they may even revolt once they see the huge tax increases.

2. If you print money (take out debt) to pay for it there will be a wave of hyper inflation that will make the great depression look like Disneyland.

3. If you cut funding in any other area to pay for it (Defense perhaps) our nation will be attacked by its enemies.

I'm just really not seeing anything else. I looked at your links and they lead to 500 server error on one and a general front webpage with hundreds of articles on the other. Point me to a specific one please. I don't have all day to explore that entire website. It would be far easier if you would paste your ideas borrowed or thine own right here so we can address them line by line.

Or maybe you are afraid of having your socialist plan exposed for what it really is?

waitingtables

Was Lincoln a socialist? Is cutting out taxes socialist? Here is an example from the above article:

"Here in the United States, the state of North Dakota has a wholly state-owned bank that creates credit on its books just as private banks do. This credit is used to serve the needs of the community, and the interest on loans is returned to the government. Not coincidentally, North Dakota has a $1.2 billion budget surplus at a time when 46 of 50 states are insolvent, an impressive achievement for a state of isolated farmers battling challenging weather.3 The North Dakota prototype could be copied not only in every U.S. state but at the federal level."
The objection invariably raised to government-issued currency or credit is that it would create dangerous hyperinflation. However, in none of these models has that proven to be true. Price inflation results either when the supply of money goes up but the supply of goods doesn’t, or when speculators devalue currencies by massive short selling, as in those cases of Latin American hyperinflation when printing-press money was used to pay off foreign debt. When new money is used to produce new goods and services, price inflation does not result because supply and demand rise together. Prices did increase during the American Civil War, but this was attributed to the scarcity of goods common in wartime rather than to the Greenback itself. War produces weapons rather than consumer goods."


There are a lot of ilnks posted and if you don't want to look into the Monetary Reform Act or the rest, that is your choice. But don't say that I haven't provided the information. Did you read the first two posts of this thread?

yzerman19wingnut

Allright hang on hang on. That is totally misleading. The Bank of North Dakota is hardly a people's bank. It mainly has all the communities and city accounts plus student loans offered by the government, etc. That's about it. There's one physical building. They do have some accounts from the public there but it pales in comparison. Quoted from their own website, "The deposit base of Bank of North Dakota is unique. Its primary deposit base is the State of North Dakota. All state funds and funds of state institutions are deposited with Bank of North Dakota, as required by law."

ANYONE CAN MAKE A GOOD BANK IF YOU REQUIRE EVERY PUBLIC SECTOR OPERATION TO PUT THEIR MONEY IN YOUR OWN VAULT. That's actually a good idea because the government of the state can monitor any misappropriation of public monies from there. I don't have a problem with the government using it's own damn bank for it's own damn money. What I do have a problem with is when the government wipes out private banks and demands that the public put money in the government bank. Hell the bank of ND isn't even FDIC insured.

And any idiot can keep a state out of the red. It's not that difficult. All you do is say nah we can't afford that.

And since Obama has printed an assload of money you show me where goods and services rose equally with the money supply.

I don't see what that has to do with Obama's policies.

I don't have a problem reforming the money system. I have a problem with socialism and what Obama's doing to our nation. You can't fix all four legs on a table at once, especially when Obama's trying to fix one of the legs with a hacksaw.

waitingtables

Obama is going through the FED. That is what the problem is and why I am saying that he doesn't have to do that. You still haven't read the article or familairised yourself with the subject. Have you heard of the Greenback? And it wouldn't be taking the place of all private banks. I cannot understand why you don't just read the Monetary Reform Act or the history of how Lincoln financed the civil war.

yzerman19wingnut

LOL. Ok listen, I am very educated on economics. I have traded more money on the stock market in the last month than your entire income has been for the past two years. I don't need a lecture on the greenback. I'm completely familiar with it and I agree with you that it needs to be based on commodities rather than the fiat system we have.

I just don't see it happening.

I have read it. I do understand it. I just don't see it working quite the same way you do. This nation would have to pay off all of it's debts before it could work. We have so much debt that there's not enough commodities of any kind to base our system on it anyways. And any tweak would immediately result in either hyperinflation or hyperdeflation. I agree that it needs to happen but it won't happen without some serious consequences first.

Am I clear enough with you on this? I agree it needs to be done. I just don't think it will happen.

waitingtables

Well, thank you for that. I didn't say that it would be easy or something that would happen tomorrow. But it could happen, if things became catastrophic or if enough people became aware of how we can stop the nation from being dominated by the few wealthy bankers that have highjacked it. Watch the documentary, The Monay Masters and tell me waht you think.