The Obama Bubble is about to Burst

highway80west · 03-06-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

I'll say one thing for you, Gary. You are about the most obstinate person I've ever spoken to. Let's try this one last time:
Obama's attraction is that he does not represent the politicians of old. People feel that he is the first (and only) politician that ever listens directly to what the public wants. Can he solve all the problems America faces today? I seriously doubt that Jesus Christ could.
But there's something to be said about his good judgment as to why he did not support invading Iraq, and not supporting NAFTA.
The ability to show good decision making ability is very high on my priority list, Gary; but I cannot speak for all Obama supporters.
As far as achievements, I think Katz said it best: Niether Obama nor Clinton have any achievements. Hillary can claim that she was married to a President; but is that really an achievement or experience? By that definition, Monica Lewinsky hasmore than all three candidates put together!
This is why Obama campaigns on the "good judgment" platform. He has shown that he has superior judgment on the major issues of the campaign. The other two will always try to say "experience". But what experience do they really have, besides McCain being a former POW?
As far as Michigan and Forida are concerned; you are correct. But that's assuming that they will be included. I really don't know how the Dems set themselves up for that mess; or how they will solve it. I know Hillary is banking on the inclusion of these two states. Will it happen? Your guess is as good as mine. But until t happens-if it happens at all- Hillary really didn't gain much overall by this last "Super Tuesday". I think she kept some delegates from defecting; but she gained little to nothing overall.

Hillary barely dented the surface as far as narrowing the gap among the delegate count on Tuesday.

garysher · 03-06-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

Hillary barely dented the surface as far as narrowing the gap among the delegate count on Tuesday.

Looks like neither of them will be able to get the magic 2025 delegates

nuttyjoe · 03-10-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Looks like neither of them will be able to get the magic 2025 delegates

I agree. I think we may be looking at a "brokered" or "forced" Democratic ticket coming up in November.

sarasara · 03-10-2008, 01:52 PM

As Jon Steward would say Mmmmmmm!

nuttyjoe · 03-10-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarasara

As Jon Steward would say Mmmmmmm!

Lately, there is talk about a mail-in replacement primary. I agree that the states need to be included- but I would not do it through the mail. It would be too easy to tamper with this such system. I also think both states need to step up for their citizens; as they are the ones who failed them by moving the dates in the first primary that caused this mess; and foot the bill for this new primary.

Gadgetory · 03-11-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

Lately, there is talk about a mail-in replacement primary. I agree that the states need to be included- but I would not do it through the mail. It would be too easy to tamper with this such system. I also think both states need to step up for their citizens; as they are the ones who failed them by moving the dates in the first primary that caused this mess; and foot the bill for this new primary.

Its never going to happen..and whilst Hilary is pushing for it Obama will not push for a re-vote in either Michigan or Florida because states like Michigan have been voting for Hilary and he is just not going to win Florida way too many latinos and he knows it..Latinos have been predominately voting for Hilary and if its Obama and McCain they will vote for McCain for obvious reasons relating to his clear support for immigration reform.....plus unlike Michigan where his name did not appear on the ballot it did appear on the ballot in Florida and she kicked his ass

Obama is primarily winning states that haven't voted democrat for about 40 years (Southern States and Utah, Wyoming, and so forth) and Hilary is winning primarily states that are either states with a large electoral college number or swing states (Ohio, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona - although you could most likely write it off as McCain is from AZ and they'll vote for him but the point still stands) ..

seriously Obama won Utah wow..hell will freeze over before they vote for a Democrat for President and the same with most of the Southern States..he is just not a good candidate and whilst he may have motivated more Black People to vote in the primaries him actually being the DNC pick for president will get the same amount of racist rednecks who often don't vote coming out in droves in the South..

I feel about Obama as many people do about Hilary..just no-one says anything about Obama for fear of being labeled racist..I don't care he is black I do care he is just full of sh1t and says nothing of substance, doesn't take a stand, plays both sides..I just don't like him..and if anyone thinks I am the only registered voter who actually votes in the Presidential election and always has voted, who thinks this you'd be very wrong

Hilary is just a better candidate ultimately

garysher · 03-11-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadgetory

Its never going to happen..and whilst Hilary is pushing for it Obama will not push for a re-vote in either Michigan or Florida because states like Michigan have been voting for Hilary higher older white populationa nd industrial and he is just not going to win Florida way too many latinos..who have been voting for Hilary..plus unlike Michigan where his name did not appear on the ballot it did appear on the ballot in Florida and she kicked his ass

Obama is primarily winning states that haven't voted democrat for about 40 years (Southern States and Utah, Wyoming, and so forth) and Hilary is winning primarily states that are either states with a large electoral college number or winning at least the popular vote in swing states (Ohio, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona - although you could most likely write it off as McCain is from AZ and they'll vote for him but the point still stands) ..Hilary is just a better candidate ultimately..

Finally you say something that makes sense!

Gadgetory · 03-11-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

I'll say one thing for you, Gary. You are about the most obstinate person I've ever spoken to. Let's try this one last time:
Obama's attraction is that he does not represent the politicians of old. People feel that he is the first (and only) politician that ever listens directly to what the public wants. Can he solve all the problems America faces today? I seriously doubt that Jesus Christ could.
But there's something to be said about his good judgment as to why he did not support invading Iraq, and not supporting NAFTA.
The ability to show good decision making ability is very high on my priority list, Gary; but I cannot speak for all Obama supporters.
As far as achievements, I think Katz said it best: Niether Obama nor Clinton have any achievements. Hillary can claim that she was married to a President; but is that really an achievement or experience? By that definition, Monica Lewinsky hasmore than all three candidates put together!
This is why Obama campaigns on the "good judgment" platform. He has shown that he has superior judgment on the major issues of the campaign. The other two will always try to say "experience". But what experience do they really have, besides McCain being a former POW?
As far as Michigan and Forida are concerned; you are correct. But that's assuming that they will be included. I really don't know how the Dems set themselves up for that mess; or how they will solve it. I know Hillary is banking on the inclusion of these two states. Will it happen? Your guess is as good as mine. But until t happens-if it happens at all- Hillary really didn't gain much overall by this last "Super Tuesday". I think she kept some delegates from defecting; but she gained little to nothing overall.

Obama's claim about Iraq is easy to say when he wasn't elected at the time. Everyone was lied to when they voted for the war in Iraq. He did however vote against bringing troops home and leaving a smaller force there to help the Iraqi's in 2006. Iraq is not a popular thing now which is why he now claims he doesn't support it. If it was popular he'd be all over the place saying how we need to stay..why are people so easily fooled?? As for NAFTA he also wasn't elected at the time and neither was Hilary was she suppose to run around the country saying she didn't support her husband the President on this issue??? BTW Whilst NAFTA has had a negative effect on states like Ohio its had a positive effect in places like CA. It has balanced itself out.

Exactly what is 'new' about Obama??..other then he has slightly less actual experience then Hilary and has no legislative accomplishments to speak of.

nuttyjoe · 03-11-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadgetory

Obama's claim about Iraq is easy to say when he wasn't elected at the time. Everyone was lied to when they voted for the war in Iraq. He did however vote against bringing troops home and leaving a smaller force there to help the Iraqi's in 2006. Iraq is not a popular thing now which is why he now claims he doesn't support it. If it was popular he'd be all over the place saying how we need to stay..why are people so easily fooled?? As for NAFTA he also wasn't elected at the time and neither was Hilary was she suppose to run around the country saying she didn't support her husband the President on this issue??? BTW Whilst NAFTA has had a negative effect on states like Ohio its had a positive effect in places like CA. It has balanced itself out.

Exactly what is 'new' about Obama??..other then he has slightly less actual experience then Hilary and has no legislative accomplishments to speak of.

Well, here's a question for you- if Obama is so inexperienced and not a good choice; please explainas to why Hillary and Bad Billy say that they would ask him to be on the ticket with her?
Talk about double-talk! Either he is experienced; or he is not- there is no middle ground. I can offer you the reason why: she cannot win without him; but he can win without her. And Obama isnot just counting on race to help him. Perhaps someone might explain just how the "Black support" that allowed him to win Wyoming? I think you might hard pressed to; as there are very few Blacks in Wyoming.
As for winning "big states"; this is just a pundit phrase. If it really had meaning; how is itthat Obama has neutralized these with the "small states", and still is leading in both the popular and delegate vote?
But I still think that we must wait until the end to find out what's going to happen. Either the superdelegates will be put on the spot;or the Dems will put forth a "brokered ticket".

highway80west · 03-12-2008, 09:25 AM

So Obama now has 129 more delegates than Clinton: 1610-1481

I wonder if Hillary overcome that?