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Old 07-06-2008, 09:52 AM   #41 (permalink)
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1) I have never heard of an Aveo...
It's a crappy Korean built car sold by Chevy. It's built by Daewoo in Korea.

2) Walmart is a huge improvement over Kmart, and Target is a bigger improvement still...
I didn't mean the store itself, but the product within. Walmart has made a fortune selling cheap chinese crap. The quality of the products hasn't increased with the cheaper prices. Free market might weed out the poor stores, but the products still suck.

3) Government regulation will not ensure everyone a benz... It will ensure everyone a Yugo... In the absence of competition, things go to crap. Look at the Soviet Union...
And I'm talking about making sure we have safe products and sufficient quality, not providing them. Make sure the competition is providing decent service and products, but don't tell them how to do it. You don't know if your hamburger hit the floor before you get it, it's the government's job to make sure the business doesn't routinely rub your food on the floor.

That's what the opposite of the free market will get you, corruption.
As if there aren't back room deals among "competitors" too. Price fixing is a problem in many industries.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:29 AM   #42 (permalink)
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As if there aren't back room deals among "competitors" too. Price fixing is a problem in many industries.

That's true. But I think the only real regulation we need from the government is anti-monopoly regulation.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:58 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I am not suggesting we abolish public schools, just that we let parents choose which public schools their kids go to, or they can choose private or religious schools. The fact is, most private schools are substantially cheaper than public schools, and religious schools are cheaper still!

As for NASA not being a failure, I would disagree. There are many other space agencies (many of which are private) that are out performing NASA. NASA has been on a downward slide ever since the last lunar landing.

And for the Military, whereas I do think it is one of the best in the world, I have to say that from the inside you can see much more of the waste, the corruption and the inefficiency. It's not what I would call "run well", but it is run better than most, that's just not saying much. But when compared to companies like black water, the U.S. Military pales by comparison in most ways. Are benefits aren't as good, our pay is terrible, our equipment is far from state-of-the-art, and is in poor shape...

The government does things poorly.
What other country's military do you think is better than the US?
Old 07-06-2008, 11:20 AM   #44 (permalink)
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What other country's military do you think is better than the US?
No other single military I have seen is better than ours (though I am biased), but there are definitely somethings other militaries do better.

French Special Forces are among the best in the world, the Brits and Canadians have a lot of perks (quality of life & beer) on their ships that we do not have, The israelis have a lot of excellent training and equipment... Overall we are the best because of the volunteer nature of our military, and the ingenuity of our troops. But when compared pound-for-pound with private militaries (e.g.: Blackwater) the government run military pales.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:24 AM   #45 (permalink)
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No other single military I have seen is better than ours (though I am biased), but there are definitely somethings other militaries do better.

French Special Forces are among the best in the world, the Brits and Canadians have a lot of perks (quality of life & beer) on their ships that we do not have, The israelis have a lot of excellent training and equipment... Overall we are the best because of the volunteer nature of our military, and the ingenuity of our troops. But when compared pound-for-pound with private militaries (e.g.: Blackwater) the government run military pales.
You probably know more about Blackwater than I do. What I see are a bunch of cowboys hanging out of helicopters at 200 feet and making themselves targets.
Old 07-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #46 (permalink)
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You probably know more about Blackwater than I do. What I see are a bunch of cowboys hanging out of helicopters at 200 feet and making themselves targets.
They are highly trained. Many of them do let their discipline slide, which is why I can't stand mercenaries, but they get paid better than us, they have better benefits, and far superior equipment...
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:06 PM   #47 (permalink)
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They are highly trained. Many of them do let their discipline slide, which is why I can't stand mercenaries, but they get paid better than us, they have better benefits, and far superior equipment...
OK, so making yourself target by hanging out of a helicopter indicates highly trained? We have a bunch of Aussies and Kiwis who protect us. They use less conspicuous measures. I went to Falcon a few days ago in an armored BMW. They look like regular cars and blend in better.
Old 07-06-2008, 02:26 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Why do you think we have outperformed every socialist / communist country?
A lot of Marxists will fall into the trap of first attacking your conclusion, but I will instead argue the validity of your premises. The insinuation is that there existed socialist and communist countries in the first place, when there really hasn't. Some got close to socialism (Cuba, Paris commune, etc.), but none really fit the definitions. I think the argument is largely moot because it's really arguing capitalism vs. state capitalism, and I agree that capitalists are better at their own game than bureaucrats.

The second assumption is that America's performance is single-handedly due to the virtues of its system. I would say this is false. A lot of factors go into America's success, and the primary ones include its historical slavery, its victories in two world wars (remaining largely untouched at home), and the retaining of the union in the civil war. The reason why I say this is because there exists many countries that followed the same capitalistic patterns of the United States only to meet in failure. Capitalism isn't some kind of magic formula applicable for anyone, but it's merely a means by which a select group of society can exploit the rest.

I think the Marxist arguments that would challenge your conclusions also have some validity. It all depends on your measure performance. Some people value the welfare of an entire society, while others value doctors driving around in Ferraris while 18,000 Americans die each year because they don't have health insurance. You be the judge.

It is also ignorant of the fact that so-called socialist and communist countries were third-world to begin with; it's a dishonest tactic, because I can point out third-world capitalist dictatorships. The fact that the Soviet Union brought Russians out of third-world feudalism into world power status within a matter of a few decades should not be simply ignored. And as soon as the Soviet Union collapsed and adopted capitalism, so did the former Soviet states fall into an even worse poverty than before. And incidentally, the US dollar and economy isn't looking so good when compared to the 'social democracies' in Europe.
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Last edited by Katczinsky; 07-06-2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: I forgot Poland
Old 07-06-2008, 02:32 PM   #49 (permalink)
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They are highly trained. Many of them do let their discipline slide, which is why I can't stand mercenaries, but they get paid better than us, they have better benefits, and far superior equipment...
And hence the severe limitations of privatizing war. The anarchy of the free market leaves an absence of respectable limitations. I'd rather trade soldiers getting paid 100 grand a year and heavily armored high-tech black SUV's for soldiers not going around massacring civilians. Incidentally, much of the torture conducted at Gitmo was by and under the supervision of contractors.

Likewise I'd rather have everyone covered in a national health plan than hospitals throwing poor people out on the street and insurance companies denying coverage just so they can afford their record-breaking profits and 250k doctor salaries.
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Last edited by Katczinsky; 07-06-2008 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:39 PM   #50 (permalink)
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OK, so making yourself target by hanging out of a helicopter indicates highly trained? We have a bunch of Aussies and Kiwis who protect us. They use less conspicuous measures. I went to Falcon a few days ago in an armored BMW. They look like regular cars and blend in better.
Because a BMW is a regular car in Iraq?
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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