Defending the Truth

fxashun · 07-05-2008, 01:04 PM

I find a lot of Ron Paul's points a little wacky. But at least they ARE real change and not just lip service. I would hope the more extreme ones would be blocked by congress, but at least a different mode of thinking at the top would do the country some good and make the other parties take notice.

tadpole256 · 07-05-2008, 01:06 PM

Which of his ideas seem too extreme to you? Specifically, which are the one you would hope to get blocked?

I think most of his ideas are dead on. The only issue that we do not see eye-to-eye on is that of abortion.

fxashun · 07-05-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

Which of his ideas seem too extreme to you? Specifically, which are the one you would hope to get blocked?

I think most of his ideas are dead on. The only issue that we do not see eye-to-eye on is that of abortion.

I remember an interview he said he would abolish the education department is the most radical one I can think of right offhand. I think you have to give the population basic education for the safety of people. Especially iin this economy. Soon college might become a basic necessity.

tadpole256 · 07-05-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I remember an interview he said he would abolish the education department is the most radical one I can think of right offhand. I think you have to give the population basic education for the safety of people. Especially iin this economy. Soon college might become a basic necessity.

See that's what I like about him... He wants to get rid of the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, The IRS, The Federal Reserve, and a lot of other useless baggage in the government.

Getting rid of the Department of Education does not mean NOT providing people with public education, it means leaving it to the states to do so and to regulate it. Time has shown that anything regulated by the federal government is done so poorly, and anything run by the federal government is done so poorly. Programs like "no child left behind" have been a miserable failure. The best thing we can do for our children is to give parents vouchers for their education, and let the parents choose where to send them to school. The free market does a far better job of regulation than any organized government system ever could.

The U.S. was founded on capatalist free-market ideals, they are what made us great. We started going down hill when we began allowing ourselves to become dependent on the government for everything. We have become a welfare society, and it is holding us back.

garysher · 07-05-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

See that's what I like about him... He wants to get rid of the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, The IRS, The Federal Reserve, and a lot of other useless baggage in the government.

Getting rid of the Department of Education does not mean NOT providing people with public education, it means leaving it to the states to do so and to regulate it. Time has shown that anything regulated by the federal government is done so poorly, and anything run by the federal government is done so poorly. Programs like "no child left behind" have been a miserable failure.

Not always. What about NASA and the US military - not exactly miserable failures!!

The best thing we can do for our children is to give parents vouchers for their education, and let the parents choose where to send them to school. The free market does a far better job of regulation than any organized government system ever could.

I agree in part, I sent my kids to private schools but it was very expensive and required a lot of sacrifices. But it definitely was a higher standard of education.

Not everyone could afford to educate their children in the private sector and many more would choose not to.

The U.S. was founded on capatalist free-market ideals, they are what made us great. We started going down hill when we began allowing ourselves to become dependent on the government for everything. We have become a welfare society, and it is holding us back.

Capitalism isn't without its flaws either.

47m Americans have no health insurance, millions more are under-insured and yet millions more are forced to cling on to jobs they hate just to get coverage.

7% of US marriages happen just to get coverage for one of the partners.

Whilst the health insurance companies make money Americans are literally dying because they are denied insurance.

If public education were abolished it's inevitable that millions of kids would get no education, and that's not good for any country.

Things have changed since the 1780's

fxashun · 07-05-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

See that's what I like about him... He wants to get rid of the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, The IRS, The Federal Reserve, and a lot of other useless baggage in the government.

Getting rid of the Department of Education does not mean NOT providing people with public education, it means leaving it to the states to do so and to regulate it. Time has shown that anything regulated by the federal government is done so poorly, and anything run by the federal government is done so poorly. Programs like "no child left behind" have been a miserable failure. The best thing we can do for our children is to give parents vouchers for their education, and let the parents choose where to send them to school. The free market does a far better job of regulation than any organized government system ever could.

The U.S. was founded on capatalist free-market ideals, they are what made us great. We started going down hill when we began allowing ourselves to become dependent on the government for everything. We have become a welfare society, and it is holding us back.

And I think there should be federal oversight of departments like that. Maybe not direct interaction like forcing a mandatory curriculum, but at least making sure all states are providing decent standards for the students. And even in the energy department, they have to make sure states don't adopt harmful programs that have the potential to turn a state into a toxic mess.

Some states if left to their own devices would end up barging into people's towns and taking all their kids. There has to be some federal checks and balances IMHO.

tadpole256 · 07-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Capitalism isn't without its flaws either.

47m Americans have no health insurance, millions more are under-insured and yet millions more are forced to cling on to jobs they hate just to get coverage.

7% of US marriages happen just to get coverage for one of the partners.

Whilst the health insurance companies make money Americans are literally dying because they are denied insurance.

If public education were abolished it's inevitable that millions of kids would get no education, and that's not good for any country.

Things have changed since the 1780's

I am not suggesting we abolish public schools, just that we let parents choose which public schools their kids go to, or they can choose private or religious schools. The fact is, most private schools are substantially cheaper than public schools, and religious schools are cheaper still!

As for NASA not being a failure, I would disagree. There are many other space agencies (many of which are private) that are out performing NASA. NASA has been on a downward slide ever since the last lunar landing.

And for the Military, whereas I do think it is one of the best in the world, I have to say that from the inside you can see much more of the waste, the corruption and the inefficiency. It's not what I would call "run well", but it is run better than most, that's just not saying much. But when compared to companies like black water, the U.S. Military pales by comparison in most ways. Are benefits aren't as good, our pay is terrible, our equipment is far from state-of-the-art, and is in poor shape...

The government does things poorly.

tadpole256 · 07-05-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

And I think there should be federal oversight of departments like that. Maybe not direct interaction like forcing a mandatory curriculum, but at least making sure all states are providing decent standards for the students. And even in the energy department, they have to make sure states don't adopt harmful programs that have the potential to turn a state into a toxic mess.

Some states if left to their own devices would end up barging into people's towns and taking all their kids. There has to be some federal checks and balances IMHO.

We don't need federal checks and balances! The PEOPLE are the checks and balances!!! If you don't like the way something is run, change it, or don't participate!!! The government is only a good source for checks and balances for the lazy, and that laziness is slowly leading to the enslavement of us all.

tadpole256 · 07-05-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Capitalism isn't without its flaws either.

47m Americans have no health insurance, millions more are under-insured and yet millions more are forced to cling on to jobs they hate just to get coverage.

7% of US marriages happen just to get coverage for one of the partners.

Whilst the health insurance companies make money Americans are literally dying because they are denied insurance.

If public education were abolished it's inevitable that millions of kids would get no education, and that's not good for any country.

Things have changed since the 1780's

Oh, and I almost forgot to address the healthcare issue...

You do not have a RIGHT to healthcare. It sure is nice, but if people want it, they can pay for it. If it were privatized and de-regulated, prices would drop drastically.

garysher · 07-05-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadpole256

Oh, and I almost forgot to address the healthcare issue...

You do not have a RIGHT to healthcare. It sure is nice, but if people want it, they can pay for it. If it were privatized and de-regulated, prices would drop drastically.

Actually I DO have a right to health care because I'm British!

So do the citizens of every other industrialised country - apart from the US.

And all those countries spend a lot less on health care than the US, because there is no middle man creaming a profit out of other people's sickness.

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