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Old 10-19-2008, 10:35 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Interesting how Zack seems to think that someone's personal blog and opinions equate to 'fact' eh?
Kind of reminds you of knowyunder eh?



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Old 10-19-2008, 10:53 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Polls tied by Monday and gas going to $2.50 by Thanksgiving... ACORN, Ayers, Reid and Pelosi ... Obama doesn't have a chance even with the press cheering him on!
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:09 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Kind of reminds you of knowyunder eh?

No.
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Old 10-19-2008, 11:34 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Obama is a liar, he says he thought Ayers was rehabilitated, just a guy in his hood...

Barack Obama’s review of William Ayers' book zomblog
Perhaps we should give Sarah Palin's...ummmm...associations equal time:


Meet Sarah Palin's radical right-wing pals

Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin's political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. "Her door was open," says Chryson -- and still is.

By Max Blumenthal and David Neiwert

Editor's note: Research support provided by the Nation Institute Investigative Fund. For Salon's complete coverage of Sarah Palin, click here.

Oct. 10, 2008

On the afternoon of Sept. 24 in downtown Palmer, Alaska, as the sun began to sink behind the snowcapped mountains that flank the picturesque Mat-Su Valley, 51-year-old Mark Chryson sat for an hour on a park bench, reveling in tales of his days as chairman of the Alaska Independence Party. The stocky, gray-haired computer technician waxed nostalgic about quixotic battles to eliminate taxes, support the "traditional family" and secede from the United States.

So long as Alaska remained under the boot of the federal government, said Chryson, the AIP had to stand on guard to stymie a New World Order. He invited a Salon reporter to see a few items inside his pickup truck that were intended for his personal protection. "This here is my attack dog," he said with a chuckle, handing the reporter an exuberant 8-pound papillon from his passenger seat. "Her name is Suzy." Then he pulled a 9-millimeter Makarov PM pistol -- once the standard-issue sidearm for Soviet cops -- out of his glove compartment. "I've got enough weaponry to raise a small army in my basement," he said, clutching the gun in his palm. "Then again, so do most Alaskans." But Chryson added a message of reassurance to residents of that faraway place some Alaskans call "the 48." "We want to go our separate ways," he said, "but we are not going to kill you."

Though Chryson belongs to a fringe political party, one that advocates the secession of Alaska from the Union, and that organizes with other like-minded secessionist movements from Canada to the Deep South, he is not without peculiar influence in state politics, especially the rise of Sarah Palin. An obscure figure outside of Alaska, Chryson has been a political fixture in the hometown of the Republican vice-presidential nominee for over a decade. During the 1990s, when Chryson directed the AIP, he and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing Palin as mayor of Wasilla and shaping her political agenda afterward. Both Stoll and Chryson not only contributed to Palin's campaign financially, they played major behind-the-scenes roles in the Palin camp before, during and after her victory.

Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced a host of anti-tax, pro-gun initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution's language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. She joined in their vendetta against several local officials they disliked, and listened to their advice about hiring. She attempted to name Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known in the Mat-Su Valley as "Black Helicopter Steve," to an empty Wasilla City Council seat. "Every time I showed up her door was open," said Chryson. "And that policy continued when she became governor."

When Chryson first met Sarah Palin, however, he didn't really trust her politically. It was the early 1990s, when he was a member of a local libertarian pressure group called SAGE, or Standing Against Government Excess. (SAGE's founder, Tammy McGraw, was Palin's birth coach.) Palin was a leader in a pro-sales-tax citizens group called WOW, or Watch Over Wasilla, earning a political credential before her 1992 campaign for City Council. Though he was impressed by her interpersonal skills, Chryson greeted Palin's election warily, thinking she was too close to the Democrats on the council and too pro-tax.

But soon, Palin and Chryson discovered they could be useful to each other. Palin would be running for mayor, while Chryson was about to take over the chairmanship of the Alaska Independence Party, which at its peak in 1990 had managed to elect a governor.

The AIP was born of the vision of "Old Joe" Vogler, a hard-bitten former gold miner who hated the government of the United States almost as much as he hated wolves and environmentalists. His resentment peaked during the early 1970s when the federal government began installing Alaska's oil and gas pipeline. Fueled by raw rage -- "The United States has made a colony of Alaska," he told author John McPhee in 1977 -- Vogler declared a maverick candidacy for the governorship in 1982. Though he lost, Old Joe became a force to be reckoned with, as well as a constant source of amusement for Alaska's political class. During a gubernatorial debate in 1982, Vogler proposed using nuclear weapons to obliterate the glaciers blocking roadways to Juneau. "There's gold under there!" he exclaimed.

Vogler made another failed run for the governor's mansion in 1986. But the AIP's fortunes shifted suddenly four years later when Vogler convinced Richard Nixon's former interior secretary, Wally Hickel, to run for governor under his party's banner. Hickel coasted to victory, outflanking a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. An archconservative Republican running under the AIP candidate, Jack Coghill, was elected lieutenant governor.

Hickel's subsequent failure as governor to press for a vote on Alaskan independence rankled Old Joe. With sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, Vogler was scheduled to present his case for Alaskan secession before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993. But before he could, Old Joe's long, strange political career ended tragically that May when he was murdered by a fellow secessionist.

Hickel rejoined the Republican Party the year after Vogler's death and didn't run for reelection. Lt. Gov. Coghill's campaign to succeed him as the AIP candidate for governor ended in disaster; he peeled away just enough votes from the Republican, Jim Campbell, to throw the gubernatorial election to Democrat Tony Knowles.

Despite the disaster, Coghill hung on as AIP chairman for three more years. When he was asked to resign in 1997, Mark Chryson replaced him. Chryson pursued a dual policy of cozying up to secessionist and right-wing groups in Alaska and elsewhere while also attempting to replicate the AIP's success with Hickel in infiltrating the mainstream.

Unlike some radical right-wingers, Chryson doesn't put forward his ideas freighted with anger or paranoia. And in a state where defense of gun and property rights often takes on a real religious fervor, Chryson was able to present himself as a typical Alaskan.

He rose through party ranks by reducing the AIP's platform to a single page that "90 percent of Alaskans could agree with." This meant scrubbing the old platform of what Chryson called "racist language" while accommodating the state's growing Christian right movement by emphasizing the AIP's commitment to the "traditional family."

"The AIP is very family-oriented," Chryson explained. "We're for the traditional family -- daddy, mommy, kids -- because we all know that it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And we don't care if Heather has two mommies. That's not a traditional family."

Chryson further streamlined the AIP's platform by softening its secessionist language. Instead of calling for immediate separation from the United States, the platform now demands a vote on independence.

Yet Chryson maintains that his party remains committed to full independence. "The Alaskan Independence Party has got links to almost every independence-minded movement in the world," Chryson exclaimed. "And Alaska is not the only place that's about separation. There's at least 30 different states that are talking about some type of separation from the United States."

This has meant rubbing shoulders and forging alliances with outright white supremacists and far-right theocrats, particularly those who dominate the proceedings at such gatherings as the North American Secessionist conventions, which AIP delegates have attended in recent years. The AIP's affiliation with neo-Confederate organizations is motivated as much by ideological affinity as by organizational convenience. Indeed, Chryson makes no secret of his sympathy for the Lost Cause. "Should the Confederate states have been allowed to separate and go their peaceful ways?" Chryson asked rhetorically. "Yes. The War of Northern Aggression, or the Civil War, or the War Between the States -- however you want to refer to it -- was not about slavery, it was about states' rights."

Another far-right organization with whom the AIP has long been aligned is Howard Phillips' militia-minded Constitution Party. The AIP has been listed as the Constitution Party's state affiliate since the late 1990s, and it has endorsed the Constitution Party's presidential candidates (Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin) in the past two elections.

The Constitution Party boasts an openly theocratic platform that reads, "It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations." In its 1990s incarnation as the U.S. Taxpayers Party, it was on the front lines in promoting the "militia" movement, and a significant portion of its membership comprises former and current militia members.

At its 1992 convention, the AIP hosted both Phillips -- the USTP's presidential candidate -- and militia-movement leader Col. James "Bo" Gritz, who was campaigning for president under the banner of the far-right Populist Party. According to Chryson, AIP regulars heavily supported Gritz, but the party deferred to Phillips' presence and issued no official endorsements.

In Wasilla, the AIP became powerful by proxy -- because of Chryson and Stoll's alliance with Sarah Palin. Chryson and Stoll had found themselves in constant opposition to policies of Wasilla's Democratic mayor, who started his three-term, nine-year tenure in 1987. By 1992, Chryson and Stoll had begun convening regular protests outside City Council. Their demonstrations invariably involved grievances against any and all forms of "socialist government," from city planning to public education. Stoll shared Chryson's conspiratorial views: "The rumor was that he had wrapped his guns in plastic and buried them in his yard so he could get them after the New World Order took over," Stein told a reporter.

Chryson did not trust Palin when she joined the City Council in 1992. He claimed that she was handpicked by Democratic City Council leaders and by Wasilla's Democratic mayor, John Stein, to rubber-stamp their tax hike proposals. "When I first met her," he said, "I thought she was extremely left. But I've watched her slowly as she's become more pronounced in her conservative ideology."

Palin was well aware of Chryson's views. "She knew my beliefs," Chryson said. "The entire state knew my beliefs. I wasn't afraid of being on the news, on camera speaking my views."

But Chryson believes she trusted his judgment because he accurately predicted what life on the City Council would be like. "We were telling her, 'This is probably what's going to happen,'" he said. "'The city is going to give this many people raises, they're going to pave everybody's roads, and they're going to pave the City Council members' roads.' We couldn't have scripted it better because everything we predicted came true."

After intense evangelizing by Chryson and his allies, they claimed Palin as a convert. "When she started taking her job seriously," Chryson said, "the people who put her in as the rubber stamp found out the hard way that she was not going to go their way." In 1994, Sarah Palin attended the AIP's statewide convention. In 1995, her husband, Todd, changed his voter registration to AIP. Except for an interruption of a few months, he would remain registered was an AIP member until 2002, when he changed his registration to undeclared.

Continued here:

Salon.com News | Meet Sarah Palin's radical right-wing pals
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:12 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
I guess I need to get out more like you but Obama and his VP nominee have been trashing Joe

McCain: Obama Smeared Joe the Plumber | Politicususa

Obama is a liar, he says he thought Ayers was rehabilitated, just a guy in his hood...


Barack Obama’s review of William Ayers' book zomblog
Zack; are you so foolish as to think that the McCain campaign should now start pointing their fingers at the Sierra Club?
It wouldn't surprise me if they did, though. Still; they won't talk about the economy- and that's what America wants (and needs) to hear about.
Tell you what, Zack. Go out and talk to someone who just lost their job recently. Tell him it's the Sierra Club's fault. Tell us of the reaction you get.
This is a great example of the misdirection of the McCain campaign. They're more interested in blaming rather than fixing.
Does that explain to you why Obama just got the endorsement from Colin Powell today?
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:29 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Do you know, the majority of the McCain supporters I talk to aren't voting for McCain, they are voting against Obama.

Two ignorant comments I heard yesterday...Obama is a socialist (I wonder where she got this from?) and Obama is an Arab. The woman actually looked me in the eye and made the Arab comment. She then admitted she hadn't read anything about Obama, had only what she'd heard from her pastor about him.

Talk about your ignorance!!!
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:45 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nuttyjoe View Post
Zack; are you so foolish as to think that the McCain campaign should now start pointing their fingers at the Sierra Club?
It wouldn't surprise me if they did, though. Still; they won't talk about the economy- and that's what America wants (and needs) to hear about.
Tell you what, Zack. Go out and talk to someone who just lost their job recently. Tell him it's the Sierra Club's fault. Tell us of the reaction you get.
This is a great example of the misdirection of the McCain campaign. They're more interested in blaming rather than fixing.
Does that explain to you why Obama just got the endorsement from Colin Powell today?
Associations Obama, Pelosi and Reid and the entire Democratic Party are with Sierra Club and that is why Obama will only support wind and solar because Sierra supports only wind and solar. The majority of American people support drilling, coal to gas, clean coal, nuclear, wave and all of the above. The Democrats and Obama brag about McCain voting against alternative energy forty times but it was because they would only list wind and solar in the energy bill.

The president is not going to fix the economy. The economy fixes itself if government gets the hell out of the way. Taxing during recession makes things worse. If you want less of something tax it! All taxes are paid by the lowest incomes in America because business passes the tax expense to the customer. In Puerto Rico all American goods are taxed at 6.6% so we pay more for the items. Tax big oil and who will pay? Tax General Electric who will pay?
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:57 PM   #58 (permalink)
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The economy fixes itself if government gets the hell out of the way.
Everyone knows that deregulation got us into this mess.
And deregulation can get us out again, too?

Wow, is there anything that deregulation can't do?
(Besides get McCain elected, I mean.)
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:01 PM   #59 (permalink)
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In a Rare Move, Kissinger Endorses McCain - December 20, 2007 - The New York Sun

Kissinger speaks for McCain - First Read - msnbc.com


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policy"---Henry Kissinger


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Old 10-19-2008, 04:22 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zack View Post

The president is not going to fix the economy. The economy fixes itself if government gets the hell out of the way. Taxing during recession makes things worse. If you want less of something tax it! All taxes are paid by the lowest incomes in America because business passes the tax expense to the customer. In Puerto Rico all American goods are taxed at 6.6% so we pay more for the items. Tax big oil and who will pay? Tax General Electric who will pay?
You don't want to tax people earning under $250k, or over $250k or small businesses, or big corporations.

So who do you want to tax?

Where will we find the money to continue to subsidise your lifestyle in Puerto Rico, the largest recipient of federal welfare (after Alaska)??

Should we carry on borrowing from China and the Gulf States?
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