Defending the Truth
Articles | Interviews | Politicians | Groups | Arcade | Experience | Donate
  Defending the Truth > Political Issues > Environment

Environment Debate and defend the issues our world faces on topics such as global warming, environmental pollution, and the many proposals that might help solve these problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-09-2006, 04:26 PM   #111 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,836
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
As to the Founding Fathers... you're rather wrong in your application. They did NOT envision a nation where any and every idiot was free to do any and every idiotic thing they could imagine doing. Families cannot function that way, companies cannot function that way, organizations cannot function that way, and countries cannot function that way.
Gross straw-man argument.
Nobody is talking about people who are "free to do any and every idiotic thing they could imagine doing"...
Hyperbole isn't an argument.
It's an attempt to avoid the real argument...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
But do keep living in your deluded state that leads you to believe that nothing is right and nothing is wrong - except the "nature" that you worship.
More hyperbole.
More strawman argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Meanwhile, I'm going to go out and dump about 5 gallons of anti-freeze down the storm sewer. And you cannot stop me - because if it feels right for me to do that, how can it possibly be wrong - you sanctimonious zealot who is always trying to cram your morals down my throat!
<yawn>
Why don't we throw in "raping kittens" while we're at it?
Or killing black people?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
That's another way of saying that YOU demand laws, rules and regulations. It's just that YOU expect all of them to be what YOU want - which means you're totally self-absorbed, rather than looking out for the good of other people. Sorry to point out the painful truth.
What "good of other people" are you talking about?
Please. Answer that simple question, because the rest of your post is devoid of any real point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaaaman
Did anyone read his last post? I felt he made some valid points here. Instead of calling him a "a$$hole" and stupid, how about trying to respond intellectually to what he said here?
Was that good enough for you?
Quite frankly, I personally believe the ***hole comment was too much, but anybody who looks at this issue and thinks that bringing up pedophilia is a rationale comparison shouldn't be treated like they've said something intelligent...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Sponsored Links
Old 05-09-2006, 04:29 PM   #112 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
I have a special going. If you are pro-pot legalization I'll buy you a drink

It is all I can offer legally at the moment.


So Jefferson, have you tried smoking pot, or are you just talking out of your ass?
I have never had any reason to smoke pot. And quite frankly, as I've already stated, I really don't care that you have/do. You know that.

So what's your point?

I've never smoked dried cow manure either. Does that mean I'm unqualified to say, "No thanks!"?
I've never poured boiling oil on my head. Does that mean I'm unqualified to say I think it's a bad thing?

Smoke all the pot you want. Just don't try to force the idea down my throat that it's a one-sided argument and that "everybody knows" that smoking pot is either harmless or actually good for you.
Old 05-09-2006, 04:36 PM   #113 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Gross straw-man argument.
Nobody is talking about people who are "free to do any and every idiotic thing they could imagine doing"...
Hyperbole isn't an argument.
It's an attempt to avoid the real argument...
Ever heard of NAMBLA?
I rest my case.

Quote:
More hyperbole.
More strawman argument.
A waste of space and letters.

Quote:
<yawn>
Why don't we throw in "raping kittens" while we're at it?
Or killing black people?
Refer again to NAMBLA. And if you have a son, make sure you don't let him out of your sight.
After all, these are just good, law-abiding folks who want to legalize what they see as harmless entertainment.

Quote:
What "good of other people" are you talking about?
Please. Answer that simple question, because the rest of your post is devoid of any real point.
EVERY society must live within the constraints of that which is best for the SOCIETY - not ONLY the individual. That means certain individual rights WILL be curtailed in order to maintain the rights and freedoms of other people. that means there WILL be laws that SOME people will ALWAYS find restrictive, unfair or stupid.

You just don't get it, do you?

Quote:
Was that good enough for you?
Quite frankly, I personally believe the ***hole comment was too much, but anybody who looks at this issue and thinks that bringing up pedophilia is a rationale comparison shouldn't be treated like they've said something intelligent...
Am I to assume your whole post was INTENDED to be a joke? Because it was.
Old 05-09-2006, 04:50 PM   #114 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,836
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Ever heard of NAMBLA?
I rest my case.
You don't have a case.
Are we on the "NAMBLA" message board? No.
Are you arguing against "NAMBLA" members who are arguing for people to be "free to do any and every idiotic thing they could imagine doing"??? No.
Try to stay on topic...


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
More hyperbole.
More strawman argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
A waste of space and letters.
I'm glad you agree with my assessment of your statements...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Refer again to NAMBLA. And if you have a son, make sure you don't let him out of your sight.
After all, these are just good, law-abiding folks who want to legalize what they see as harmless entertainment.
Okay, WHICH NAMBLA member is on this board asking for that???
POINT him or her out please.

Until then, your replies are just too stupid and irrelevant for words.
You're not even ON the topic at this point.
You're just trying to save face by pointing ELSEWHERE to OTHER PEOPLE who might be trying to use an argument similar to what you inaccurately paraphrased for the POSTERS HERE...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
EVERY society must live within the constraints of that which is best for the SOCIETY - not ONLY the individual. That means certain individual rights WILL be curtailed in order to maintain the rights and freedoms of other people. that means there WILL be laws that SOME people will ALWAYS find restrictive, unfair or stupid.
And predictably, Jefferson provided ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER to my question.
Don't get me wrong, although Jefferson will try to do precisely that...
I AGREE that society must live within some constraints. But those constraints must have a REASON for being there!

And Jefferson made a claim that would put "the good of the people" as a reason for why this particular issue, discussed on this particular message board, would be curtailed.

So answer the question Jefferson.
How is curtailing people's capability to grow hemp or buy pot in the SPECIFIC interest of "good of the people"?
HOW does keeping it illegal show a "good" for the people?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
You just don't get it, do you?
Oh. I get you quite completely. Plenty of hyperbole, strawman argument, misdirection, and LOTS of blow-hard nature.
Trying to pretend one thing is another. Arguing against pot or hemp by bringing up PEDOPHILIA???

Yeah. I get you quite thoroughly, and it's a rather boring trick...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Am I to assume your whole post was INTENDED to be a joke? Because it was.
Let's hope you can come up with better witty comments in the future.
That was just plain lame!
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 05-09-2006, 05:15 PM   #115 (permalink)
Super Moderator
Moderator
 
hevusa's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Seattle (grew up around D.C.)
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,013
Country:
Points: 29,896, Level: 99
Points: 29,896, Level: 99 Points: 29,896, Level: 99 Points: 29,896, Level: 99
Level up: 94%, 104 Points needed
Level up: 94% Level up: 94% Level up: 94%
Activity: 12%
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
hevusa is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
I have never had any reason to smoke pot. And quite frankly, as I've already stated, I really don't care that you have/do. You know that.

So what's your point?

I've never smoked dried cow manure either. Does that mean I'm unqualified to say, "No thanks!"?
I've never poured boiling oil on my head. Does that mean I'm unqualified to say I think it's a bad thing?

Smoke all the pot you want. Just don't try to force the idea down my throat that it's a one-sided argument and that "everybody knows" that smoking pot is either harmless or actually good for you.

What is my point? My point is you would not have such a negative attitude towards legalization if you had smoked pot. It isn't the devil conservative Americans make it out to be. And more and more long term studies are showing this, proving that it is less harmful than the already legal alcohol and tabacco.

No one wants to force anyone to smoke pot, especially marijuana users. Marijuana users only want access to a naturally occuring plant.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 05-09-2006, 05:16 PM   #116 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Good lord, you just don't get it, do you?

The fact that there are pot-smokers calling for the legalization of smoking pot means very little.

There are also pedophiles calling for the legalization of pedophelia. Big deal. Doesn't mean it should happen.

Take any law - ANY law - and there will be a group of people who passionately believes that the law is wrong because it restricts behavior that they feel is okay.

Try to keep up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
You don't have a case.
Are we on the "NAMBLA" message board? No.
Are you arguing against "NAMBLA" members who are arguing for people to be "free to do any and every idiotic thing they could imagine doing"??? No.
Try to stay on topic...




I'm glad you agree with my assessment of your statements...



Okay, WHICH NAMBLA member is on this board asking for that???
POINT him or her out please.

Until then, your replies are just too stupid and irrelevant for words.
You're not even ON the topic at this point.
You're just trying to save face by pointing ELSEWHERE to OTHER PEOPLE who might be trying to use an argument similar to what you inaccurately paraphrased for the POSTERS HERE...



And predictably, Jefferson provided ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER to my question.
Don't get me wrong, although Jefferson will try to do precisely that...
I AGREE that society must live within some constraints. But those constraints must have a REASON for being there!

And Jefferson made a claim that would put "the good of the people" as a reason for why this particular issue, discussed on this particular message board, would be curtailed.

So answer the question Jefferson.
How is curtailing people's capability to grow hemp or buy pot in the SPECIFIC interest of "good of the people"?
HOW does keeping it illegal show a "good" for the people?



Oh. I get you quite completely. Plenty of hyperbole, strawman argument, misdirection, and LOTS of blow-hard nature.
Trying to pretend one thing is another. Arguing against pot or hemp by bringing up PEDOPHILIA???

Yeah. I get you quite thoroughly, and it's a rather boring trick...



Let's hope you can come up with better witty comments in the future.
That was just plain lame!
Old 05-09-2006, 05:18 PM   #117 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
What is my point? My point is you would not have such a negative attitude towards legalization if you had smoked pot. It isn't the devil conservative Americans make it out to be. And more and more long term studies are showing this, proving that it is less harmful than the already legal alcohol and tabacco.

No one wants to force anyone to smoke pot, especially marijuana users. Marijuana users only want access to a naturally occuring plant.
Who's talking about "negative attitude"?

I'm pointing out that the vast majority of people who want to legalize smoking pot are the ones who already smoke pot. Kind of self-serving, isn't it?

And like I've already said, there will be people who oppose ANY and EVERY law, thinking that it's stupid. Why? Because they want to do what is currently deemed illegal.
Old 05-09-2006, 05:19 PM   #118 (permalink)
Council Member
 
Dylan's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,808
Points: 6,624, Level: 53
Points: 6,624, Level: 53 Points: 6,624, Level: 53 Points: 6,624, Level: 53
Level up: 37%, 126 Points needed
Level up: 37% Level up: 37% Level up: 37%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Dylan is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Well, I don't smoke pot, and I don't think it should be legalized.

In fact... I'm straight edge. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't do one night stands. However, I think all of these things should be legal. Why?

Because I am a libertarian. I believe that it is not the government's job to regulate morality. That is the job of the individual. The government exists to keep people from infringing upon the life, liberty, and property of others, and very little else.

How does it affect your life if someone smokes pot? It certainly doesn't affect mine.
Old 05-09-2006, 05:31 PM   #119 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
Well, I don't smoke pot, and I don't think it should be legalized.

In fact... I'm straight edge. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't do one night stands. However, I think all of these things should be legal. Why?

Because I am a libertarian. I believe that it is not the government's job to regulate morality. That is the job of the individual. The government exists to keep people from infringing upon the life, liberty, and property of others, and very little else.

How does it affect your life if someone smokes pot? It certainly doesn't affect mine.
Is it the government's job to pay for people's "choices" - whether they be "moral" choices or otherwise?
Old 05-09-2006, 06:02 PM   #120 (permalink)
Council Member
 
Dylan's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,808
Points: 6,624, Level: 53
Points: 6,624, Level: 53 Points: 6,624, Level: 53 Points: 6,624, Level: 53
Level up: 37%, 126 Points needed
Level up: 37% Level up: 37% Level up: 37%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Dylan is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Is it the government's job to pay for people's "choices" - whether they be "moral" choices or otherwise?
Of course not. The government wouldn't be selling drugs though, private companies would. Related medical bills? The person or his relatives would pay that.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 AM.


 Top Political Sites
Poltical Topsites