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Environment Debate and defend the issues our world faces on topics such as global warming, environmental pollution, and the many proposals that might help solve these problems.

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Old 08-28-2008, 07:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Building a green economy
SEPTEMBER 27 will be a national mobilization to say, “I’m ready for the green economy.”We are ready to tackle the climate crisis by building a green economy strong enough to lift people out of poverty.

Fifty states. Hundreds of actions. You can be a part of it.

Help us say: I’M READY!

Building a green economy strong enough to lift people out of poverty — Green For All

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Bring Heaven to Earth Every Day!


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Stop the madness before us it stops!
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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How will it be funded, who will pay for this undertaking?
LIBERALISM - Emotional thinking fueled by ignorance
Old 08-28-2008, 09:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How will environmentalists and Democrats be prevented from blocking alternative fuels?
Old 08-28-2008, 11:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wow View Post
How will environmentalists and Democrats be prevented from blocking alternative fuels?
Yesterday Glenn Beck reported environmentalists want all the windmills pulled down because they seem to cause a pressure inversion that causes bat lungs to collasp when they fly near them.

Back to the original post Green in a decade: Who is going to pay for it?

The goal for America's national security energy plan must include an ambition to move toward non-fossil fuel for everything with smoke coming out other than aircraft along with an ambition to move away from fossil fuel for electric power generation. The ambitions are grand and I think many have been fooled by the green folks and advertisements and so on.

To get an idea of green electricity ambitions as stated here Building a green economy strong enough to lift people out of poverty — Green For All fossil fuel free in a decade the first thing out of your mouth should be, who's going to pay for it?

Here is a way to wrap your head around how much investment it would take for just your home. Here is a calculator to play with http://store.altenergystore.com/calc...id_calculator/ Now I know no one is saying for every family to install an AE system but a central system with distribution is on the same degree of investment, and the investment is in the trillions of dollars!!! Where is that money to come from?

The facts are hard to refute, alternative energy [wind/solar] represents only about 3% of America's energy source. Many people would laugh out loud if you were to tell them "we can double that in four years" just because it seems impossible. Solar and wind costs a lot of money, for example to outfit a home for hot water costs $5,000.00, to replace the electricity costs $40,000.00 and if you want air conditioning and heat add another $20,000.00! Now I will admit that if every American family were forced to use solar/wind to replace their fossil source of energy the price would go down to maybe a total for heat, electricity and air conditioning to say $40,000 to $50,000.00.

The Al Gore Greenforall crowd on the link above sounds oh so wonderful, putting all of those ghetto blasters to work building solar panels and windmills and has a goal of being green in one decade! To be green in one decade would require an alternative energy investment of 100,000,000 families at $40,000 to $50,000.00 each! Oh crap, I forgot the workplaces that also have to turn green in that same period? And guess what we haven't addressed how we move around the nation, will we invest the $40,000 to $50,000.00 and buy an electric car at the same time? Will we do this in a decade or a century and who will pay for it.

This brings us to our first ambition of getting away from imported oil, the Democrats say it's simple, we change over our domestic electricity to green non-fossil green electricity and then we plug in our electric cars. My question remains where does the trillions of dollars come from to have non fossil electricity? What would cause a citizen to go out and buy an electric car?

I say it will take at least a half century to create green fossil free America wide electricity. The only way it can happen is if someone using fossil fuel to produce electricity is "paid off" to make the investment in non-fossil source. The Democratic Party doesn't support a pay off incentive, but rather prefers to fine fossil users and take those fines and give them to non fossil replacements... That means John Doe's electric bill will triple when the government fines a coal electric producer and if John Doe happens to be a coal miner his life really starts to suck.

The only way I can see going non fossil is to use a bridge of NG for autos, drill everywhere in our control and use the proceeds as the pay offs to electric producers for using non-fossil sources and use the same proceeds to give cash incentives for the folks to invest in electric cars so mass production can bring down the price.
LIBERALISM - Emotional thinking fueled by ignorance
Old 08-28-2008, 11:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Yesterday Glenn Beck reported environmentalists want all the windmills pulled down because they seem to cause a pressure inversion that causes bat lungs to collasp when they fly near them.

Back to the original post Green in a decade: Who is going to pay for it?

The goal for America's national security energy plan must include an ambition to move toward non-fossil fuel for everything with smoke coming out other than aircraft along with an ambition to move away from fossil fuel for electric power generation. The ambitions are grand and I think many have been fooled by the green folks and advertisements and so on.

To get an idea of green electricity ambitions as stated here Building a green economy strong enough to lift people out of poverty — Green For All fossil fuel free in a decade the first thing out of your mouth should be, who's going to pay for it?

Here is a way to wrap your head around how much investment it would take for just your home. Here is a calculator to play with http://store.altenergystore.com/calc...id_calculator/ Now I know no one is saying for every family to install an AE system but a central system with distribution is on the same degree of investment, and the investment is in the trillions of dollars!!! Where is that money to come from?

The facts are hard to refute, alternative energy [wind/solar] represents only about 3% of America's energy source. Many people would laugh out loud if you were to tell them "we can double that in four years" just because it seems impossible. Solar and wind costs a lot of money, for example to outfit a home for hot water costs $5,000.00, to replace the electricity costs $40,000.00 and if you want air conditioning and heat add another $20,000.00! Now I will admit that if every American family were forced to use solar/wind to replace their fossil source of energy the price would go down to maybe a total for heat, electricity and air conditioning to say $40,000 to $50,000.00.

The Al Gore Greenforall crowd on the link above sounds oh so wonderful, putting all of those ghetto blasters to work building solar panels and windmills and has a goal of being green in one decade! To be green in one decade would require an alternative energy investment of 100,000,000 families at $40,000 to $50,000.00 each! Oh crap, I forgot the workplaces that also have to turn green in that same period? And guess what we haven't addressed how we move around the nation, will we invest the $40,000 to $50,000.00 and buy an electric car at the same time? Will we do this in a decade or a century and who will pay for it.

This brings us to our first ambition of getting away from imported oil, the Democrats say it's simple, we change over our domestic electricity to green non-fossil green electricity and then we plug in our electric cars. My question remains where does the trillions of dollars come from to have non fossil electricity? What would cause a citizen to go out and buy an electric car?

I say it will take at least a half century to create green fossil free America wide electricity. The only way it can happen is if someone using fossil fuel to produce electricity is "paid off" to make the investment in non-fossil source. The Democratic Party doesn't support a pay off incentive, but rather prefers to fine fossil users and take those fines and give them to non fossil replacements... That means John Doe's electric bill will triple when the government fines a coal electric producer and if John Doe happens to be a coal miner his life really starts to suck.

The only way I can see going non fossil is to use a bridge of NG for autos, drill everywhere in our control and use the proceeds as the pay offs to electric producers for using non-fossil sources and use the same proceeds to give cash incentives for the folks to invest in electric cars so mass production can bring down the price.
Do your numbers include the costs of environmental lawsuits?
I know a guy that spent $15,000 on solar panels for his home.
I asked him how long it would take to recover his investment, he said about 12 years.
Old 08-28-2008, 12:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wow View Post
Do your numbers include the costs of environmental lawsuits?
I know a guy that spent $15,000 on solar panels for his home.
I asked him how long it would take to recover his investment, he said about 12 years.
If your friend gets all of his electricity from the solar panels for $15,000 and recovers it in 12 years it's a good deal since good panels will last for thirty years.

I never calculated environmental lawsuits.

I have solar hot water and would love to convert my electricity to wind or solar but I've appraised it and it costs nearly $50,000.00... which if I had the cash still might be a good deal since I could sell any extra electric produced to the electric company but if you have to finance solar it costs double what electric costs from the city.
LIBERALISM - Emotional thinking fueled by ignorance
Old 08-28-2008, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
If your friend gets all of his electricity from the solar panels for $15,000 and recovers it in 12 years it's a good deal since good panels will last for thirty years.

I never calculated environmental lawsuits.

I have solar hot water and would love to convert my electricity to wind or solar but I've appraised it and it costs nearly $50,000.00... which if I had the cash still might be a good deal since I could sell any extra electric produced to the electric company but if you have to finance solar it costs double what electric costs from the city.
Sure, who would not want to make a good investment?
But as you pointed out, most people can not afford it.

When Obama mentions "Fast tracking" alternative energy, that is code for "Exempt alternative fuel production from environmental lawsuits" That will not fly with the Trial Lawyer's Association, his single largest campaign contributor!
Old 08-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wow View Post
Sure, who would not want to make a good investment?
But as you pointed out, most people can not afford it.

When Obama mentions "Fast tracking" alternative energy, that is code for "Exempt alternative fuel production from environmental lawsuits" That will not fly with the Trial Lawyer's Association, his single largest campaign contributor!
Where did you hear this:"Fast tracking" alternative energy, that is code for "Exempt alternative fuel production from environmental lawsuits"
LIBERALISM - Emotional thinking fueled by ignorance
Old 08-29-2008, 05:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Where did you hear this:"Fast tracking" alternative energy, that is code for "Exempt alternative fuel production from environmental lawsuits"
Obama mentioned it in a speech about one month ago.
He even knows Lawyers/environmentalists are are the main problem.
Old 08-30-2008, 06:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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How will it be funded, who will pay for this undertaking?

We the People can!

National Priorities Project | Bringing the Federal Budget Home
Live the Light, Give the Light,
Bring Heaven to Earth Every Day!


I am not a human being having a spiritual experience, I am a spiritual being having a human experience.

The ancient Greeks used to say, "You shall know a man by the friends that he keeps." Given the nature of their friends and advisers, what are we to conclude about the Republican party:
Stop the madness before us it stops!
Σταματήστε την τρέλα προτού να μας σταματήσεϊ Greek
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