Defending the Truth

onthefence · 08-30-2006, 08:41 PM

I saw a blurb about this on CNN a few days ago and just assumed I would hear more from other outlets...... but haven't heard anything.

I also found a blog with lots of info too, one that I can't seem to find again..

Is this the answer?

Quote:

Most experts agree that the age of oil, amid dwindling resources and spiraling prices, will be over soon. There are different ways out of that dependence, one being the process of turning solid coal into liquid fuels.
The United States, thanks to huge domestic coal resources, could satisfy its energy needs for the entire 21st century with liquid fuels derived from coal, at less than $30 a barrel, Klaus Lackner and Jeffrey Sachs, energy experts at the Earth Institute at Columbia University, in New York, have said in their new paper.
"(With widespread use of coal liquefication) the long term price of liquid hydrocarbon fuels may be lower than it is today, even allowing for pessimistic forecasts for oil and gas reserves," the authors write. "Even with the most conservative assumptions about learning curves," they write, it is safe to assume that synthetic fuel derived from coal will cost "below $30 per barrel."
The most common way to convert coal into liquid fuels is the Fischer-Tropsch process, named after two German scientists who developed the technique in 1925.

Coal-based liquid fuel seen promising....??

Coal conversion technologies are generally viewed as economic when crude oil is trading at prices above $40 per barrel and natural gas is trading at prices above $5 per million Btu.

IR // News // Wyo. coal-to-liquid plant advances

Quote:

However, the new Highway Act provides a subsidy of $21 a barrel for commercial-scale CTL projects. Taking that into account, with oil at $50 a barrel (that is, well below current prices around $70), the internal rate of return on such a project would be in the mouth-watering range 22-25 per cent.
It would also be environmentally friendly, as the technology converts dirty coal into “ultra-clean” synthetic diesel and jet fuel that can be used in current engines without adaptation. And “the fuels are easily transportable and marketable, as they are compatible with existing petro-fuel distribution infrastructure” (unlike ethanol-blended petrol, bio-diesel and more radical alternative fuels).

coal-to-liquids, coal, oil - Money Week

hevusa · 08-30-2006, 09:03 PM

Very interesting OTF.

My first thought, however, is that while they seem to be claiming it is cleaner than conventional fuel, how much worse is it than the alternatives. Your quotes mention clean diesel and jet fuel but nothing about normal cars, which are the worst offender by far.

onthefence · 08-30-2006, 09:06 PM

I am still looking for more info..... I have been for days.

I figured I would start a topic and see where it goes.

hevusa · 08-30-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthefence

I am still looking for more info..... I have been for days.

I figured I would start a topic and see where it goes.

Try "coal to fuel":
coal to fuel - Google Search

Seems to bring up some good info on first glance.

Jefferson · 08-31-2006, 11:02 AM

I think that the coal-to-oil, or coal-to-liquid fuel, is an extremely expensive process.

Also, I'm not sure of the efficiency.

But mostly, I'm not sure it really offers much of an alternative. It's a limitted resource, and its consumption produces a fair amount of pollution - even with the high standards we now have.

I think there are better sources of energy.

hevusa · 08-31-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

I think that the coal-to-oil, or coal-to-liquid fuel, is an extremely expensive process.

Also, I'm not sure of the efficiency.

But mostly, I'm not sure it really offers much of an alternative. It's a limitted resource, and its consumption produces a fair amount of pollution - even with the high standards we now have.

I think there are better sources of energy.

I think you are absolutely correct. Unless I hear differently I certainly don't believe in a limited resource like coal. We need renewable energy that is extremely clean and that will meet our ever rising demands for energy.

I think the answer is going to be a combination of many different methods working together or at least side by side. Just a hunch.

Jefferson · 08-31-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevusa

I think you are absolutely correct. Unless I hear differently I certainly don't believe in a limited resource like coal. We need renewable energy that is extremely clean and that will meet our ever rising demands for energy.

I think the answer is going to be a combination of many different methods working together or at least side by side. Just a hunch.

Well... I think coal use has become markedly better, more efficient, and less polluting over the last 25 years. They've made HUGE strides. But I think it's a little like producing cars that get better mileage. It's good, but not going to be adequate.

Wind-generated power is going to continue to be HUGE.
Corn-ethanol (E85) as well as ethanol from other renewable sources is going to be HUGE.

...and conservation is going to be key.

08-30-2006, 09:06 PM		#3 (permalink)
	onthefence Beer Man Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: stuck in the middle Posts: 4,786 Country: Thanks: 89 Thanked 230 Times in 140 Posts	I am still looking for more info..... I have been for days. I figured I would start a topic and see where it goes. "We could not now take time for further search or consideration, our victuals being much spent, especially our beer." - William Bradford Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right..... Now offering premium membership for only $25.00!! Click here to get started.!

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