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Freedom of Speech Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; How far do you feel freedom of speech should go?

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Old 06-23-2007, 08:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
I wanted to add something of intrest about this thread...If anyone here has taken the time to go through all the clips on this episode, you'll notice that there's a YouTube 'battle' going on between the supporters of Scientology and those against Scientology.

There's a thing of intrest though that viewers should know before viewing the clips.

If you watch the WHOLE clip from the actual show put on by the BBC, there's a segment where John Sweeny is attending the opening of a new Scientology Church. While he's talking to one of the members, Tom Davis walks up and Sweeny starts talking to him.

This is the scene where Sweeny uses the word 'cult' in regards to Scientology and Davis starts berating him. Towards the end of this segment, after Davis has his say and Sweeny is trying to get his word in while Davis is walking away...The words Sweeny says is 19 minutes and 18 seconds into the taping and his back is to the camera...

The BBC track has Sweeny's words as: "No it's your turn to listen to me, if people say to me that they think that you're what you claim to be a religion is in fact a cult, I've got a right to report that."

The version that has been put out by YouTube, when Scientologists started immediately posting the incident, is these words: "No it's your turn to listen to me, I'm a British subject, not an American citizen, and in my country we have a freedom of speech, I've got a right to report that."

Am I the only person here, that finds it disturbing? That not only does such a group endorses harrassing and investigating their imagined opponants, but that they're willing to also doctor the videos and spread false information about what was said by their supposed 'enemies'?

Not only do I find that disturbing, but that those viewing these videos on YouTube are ignorant of the dubbing, being made victims of false information.
Wow! I didn't notice that. Good job Alicorns.

That is very disturbing to say the least. I don't understand how people can be so out-right dishonest.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:01 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Wow! I didn't notice that. Good job Alicorns.

That is very disturbing to say the least. I don't understand how people can be so out-right dishonest.
It isn't like Sweeny has tried to deny his outburst. Heck, he even APOLOGIZED (which incidently you can see on YouTube as well) for his behavior.

But for them to go even further, by dubbing the tape to make him look even worse? Seems to me, that since they're having trouble getting the UK to give them tax-exempt status, that they're did this to make citizens of the UK look worse? To create biased opinions not only against the BBC, but British citizens as well?

There's another concern as well, in regards to police involvement in Clearwater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW8eTe_Ank8

I ran across a news report where they were attempting the same thing in the UK, but didn't save the link. When I refind it, I'll put that up as well.

Another interesting thing to watch, is the videos of town meetings in Clearwater, where citizens have been lodging complaints against the CS, because of the tatics they've been using to intimidate and destroy public officials who don't support them.

The more research done into the group and it's run-in with their communities, the more disturbing the organization becomes.

I haven't found the video yet, but did find one of the news articles...
BBC NEWS | UK | England | London | Police Scientology gifts inquiry

Last edited by AlicornsPrayer; 06-24-2007 at 10:21 AM.
Old 06-24-2007, 11:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It seems that Scientologists believe that because of their "religion" status that they are above the law. And unfortunately so does the Clearwater police.

What I am astonished by isn't necessarily the actions of Scientology in Clearwater, as such behavior by them has become unsurprising to me, but rather the lack of accountability and action taken by other departments and/or the FBI. To me it seems that if a different organization or if a regular joe like you or I attempted to harass our enemies and pay off the police, then our house would be raided within a blink of an eye. Perhaps the feds are afraid of persecution of what could be perceived as potential unconstitutional behavior (going after a religion) and the publicity that it would achieve by going after Scientology as an institution.

Perhaps they are afraid of another Waco. But in my opinion, it doesn't matter who they are....they're breaking the law.
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
It seems that Scientologists believe that because of their "religion" status that they are above the law. And unfortunately so does the Clearwater police.

What I am astonished by isn't necessarily the actions of Scientology in Clearwater, as such behavior by them has become unsurprising to me, but rather the lack of accountability and action taken by other departments and/or the FBI. To me it seems that if a different organization or if a regular joe like you or I attempted to harass our enemies and pay off the police, then our house would be raided within a blink of an eye. Perhaps the feds are afraid of persecution of what could be perceived as potential unconstitutional behavior (going after a religion) and the publicity that it would achieve by going after Scientology as an institution.

Perhaps they are afraid of another Waco. But in my opinion, it doesn't matter who they are....they're breaking the law.
Alot of it has to do with their 'fair game' policies about totally destroying those that they percieve as threats to their goals. Many people don't want their skeletons thrown out in the public eye, so will cave in quickly. The Church of Scientology has learned that this type of intimidation is their best weapon. If that fails, then they tie the individuals up in lawsuit, after lawsuit, till their percieved 'enemies' are financially destroyed too.

Unfortunately, until everyone who sees this as wrong stands up together and fights them? It'll continue.

I do find it kind of ironic how TCS will use the holocaust as their reasons of why this/that is bad, yet the actions they use to attack their 'enemies' are no different then the tatics the Nazis' used to legitamize thier abuse of individuals who didn't agree with thier practices/methods?

Eventually, I get the feeling that people aren't going to wake up and realize the danger this group poses towards society on whole, till there's an incident similar to what happened with Jim Jones and his cult.

On a side note? Federal law enforcement deffinately needs to step in, with regards to the Clearwater situation. They had no problems in the past, investigating suspected cases of corruption in the South, so why not in this instance? Because from all appearances and footages I've seen on the Clearwater situation, there is deffinately some corruption going on there between the church and the local police.

Another point of intrest? Have you ever heard of the Cult Awareness Network? They were origionally a group that helped family and ex-members of cults. The Church of Scientology got upset about their group being included on CAN's list of cults...So they engaged in a campaign to discredit it's owners, had individuals from their group attempt to join CAN, when that failed then started filing lawsuits against the organization. CAN was ran into financial bankruptsy from those cases, then the Church of Scientology bought the name, logos, and rights to CAN for $20,000. They now run the organization, promoting Scientology instead.

Now, isn't that thought scary. An organization that is supposedly warning people about cults being ran by a cult?

Last edited by AlicornsPrayer; 06-24-2007 at 11:36 AM.
Old 06-24-2007, 11:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Now, isn't that thought scary. An organization that is supposedly warning people about cults being ran by a cult?
No doubt. It is very mafia-like.

Unfortunately though, mainstream society just sees Scientology as something to laugh at; for comedy central to use as a source of jokes. But if they were really educated on their practices, there's nothing laughable about it.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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