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Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman.

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Old 05-07-2007, 05:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I’m highly dubious of any study suggesting “no difference” in whether children raised in this, that or another type of home vs. a traditional home.


However, I would caution that, IMO, what we might consider “traditional” families (Mom, Dad, 2.5 children and Rex the dog living behind a picket fence) is, in fact a fairly new construct and is itself deeply dysfunctional.


When I say “traditional” family, I mean what I consider to be a true traditional family – in which an extended network of relatives – the tribe or clan, if you will – is directly and actively involved in the child rearing process.


To say that an isolated couple – dealing with all the stresses of simply trying to make a living – can also effectively raise children without a significant and readily present support network is, IMO, ignorant to the point of being insane.


And I think a quick look at our society – with all the divorce, domestic dysfunction, isolation, apathy, and everybody needing medication and therapy – bears stark testimony to that.


In summary, I don’t think it was "them thar queer folk what done broke the family." I think “the family” was a broken vessel in this society long before the issue of gay parenting ever became a talking point.
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Some opponents of same-sex marriage criticize these studies, but we need not consider the criticism, for the studies on their face do not establish beyond doubt that children fare equally well in same sex and opposite-sex households.
It's funny how the constitution and American concepts don't apply to gay people.
We live in a society of "equality" and "innocent until proven guilty".
"Prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt".

But here, the courts have explicitly stated that for gays, we have to PROVE we are innocent, and until then they are going ASSUME we are guilty of not providing sufficient homes because we have not satisfied their "doubt" that we do not.

There is NO EVIDENCE that shows that gays provide inferior homes. NONE. NO research concludes that.

And we DO have research which demonstrates the opposite. That gay homes are just as good.
But in the end, gays have to prove we are innocent, beyond doubt, because we are assumed guilty!

Gotta love America!
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
SOurces, sources, sources, please list where you found this.

>>>>>>>>>>

www.apa.org



That's irrelevant in the face of the fact that there are no detriments. Let's not forget all the single mothers and fathers who raised their children fine.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

What is your source for assuming there are no detriments to single parenthood??

Browse the US Census Bureau Census Bureau Home Page and you will find there are consistent and undeniable DISadvantages for children raised in one parent families




What does that prove? That there is no difference. That even though there have been relatively few studies, none have suggested any significant damage to these children.
Are you deliberately choosing to misinterpret the court's findings?
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
What is your source for assuming there are no detriments to single parenthood??

Browse the US Census Bureau Census Bureau Home Page and you will find there are consistent and undeniable DISadvantages for children raised in one parent families
That's part of the funny thing about all this.
STRAIGHT single parents can adopt. No problems.

But the "single parent" crap is used EXCLUSIVELY against gays.

Another example where the white folk don't need to know how to read, but the "single parent" excuse is used against the gays.

And the other funny thing is that "single parent" is crap when you look at gay COUPLES.
Compare gay COUPLES to straight COUPLES.
Gay SINGLE parents to straight SINGLE parents.


Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher
Are you deliberately choosing to misinterpret the court's findings?
The court chose to deliberately ignore the ACTUAL CONCLUSIONS of the research, inserting its OWN prejudice in assuming gay parents were inferior based on NO evidence, and ignoring the evidence which shows we make just as good parents.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
www.apa.org
Specific link? Where are the testing procedures? Sample populations? Percent error?


Quote:
What is your source for assuming there are no detriments to single parenthood??

Browse the US Census Bureau
Quote:
Census Bureau Home Page and you will find there are consistent and undeniable DISadvantages for children raised in one parent families
Okay, bad example, but single parenting is not the same as a same sex couple, especially considering what I said before about gender roles being more of a factor than sex.

Quote:
Are you deliberately choosing to misinterpret the court's findings?
How would you interpret them?
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Old 05-07-2007, 06:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher
Nope I wouldn't say that.

But I would draw your attention to tinkerbelle's article:

"the Justice Department which had ordered Hasting's report, was distancing itself from the findings and concluded "[there has been] very little research in this area".


But what evidence we have appears to be positive and suggests that parents are parents.
__________________
Actually, antithesis, the reason the government is "concluding" that very little research has been done (in spite of evidence to the contrary) is because they are staunchly anti-gay now. They have already tried to reverse gay marriage in that country (though it failed). Of course they're distancing themselves from studies that prove them wrong.
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Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 05-07-2007, 07:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
That's part of the funny thing about all this.
STRAIGHT single parents can adopt. No problems.

>>>>>>>>>>>

But the statistics show that childern fare much worse when raised by single parents.

Of course you don't give a damn about that as long as you keep banging your selfish homosexual drum







And the other funny thing is that "single parent" is crap when you look at gay COUPLES.
Compare gay COUPLES to straight COUPLES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How can gay couples provide a child with both a mummy and a daddy?




The court chose to deliberately ignore the ACTUAL CONCLUSIONS of the research, inserting its OWN prejudice in assuming gay parents were inferior based on NO evidence, and ignoring the evidence which shows we make just as good parents.
Infact, you and those like you choose to ignore the evidence of centuries of precedence in favour of your own bigoted, prejudiced homosexual outlook.

Not to mention the wisdom of Mother Nature
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Old 05-07-2007, 07:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Specific link? Where are the testing procedures? Sample populations? Percent error?

>>>>>>>>>>

I gave you the link

Do your homework and stop dodging




Okay, bad example, but single parenting is not the same as a same sex couple, especially considering what I said before about gender roles being more of a factor than sex.
What does that mean?
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Old 05-07-2007, 08:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Actually, antithesis, the reason the government is "concluding" that very little research has been done (in spite of evidence to the contrary) is because they are staunchly anti-gay now.

>>>>>>>>

Or could it just be that very little research has been done?




They have already tried to reverse gay marriage in that country (though it failed). Of course they're distancing themselves from studies that prove them wrong.


Just as you are rushing toward the faintest glimpse of an argument to support your own, no matter how insubstantial
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
But the statistics show that childern fare much worse when raised by single parents.
I'm sorry, but didn't I just acknowledge that?
And then point out that you need to compare gay SINGLE parents to straight SINGLE parents, and gay COUPLES to straight COUPLES?

All you do is talk in circles and repeat yourself, ignoring people who point out why you are wrong.

Can you explain to me why SINGLE straight parents are allowed to adopt, and single gay parents are not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher
Of course you don't give a damn about that as long as you keep banging your selfish homosexual drum
What is truly selfish is your idiotic desire to keep gays from adopting, even though that would mean MORE ORPHANS who don't have parents.
Now THAT is selfish!

Giving a gay couple a kid to adopt when they can care for the child is not "selfish". DENYING him that opportunity based on your prejudice is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
And the other funny thing is that "single parent" is crap when you look at gay COUPLES.
Compare gay COUPLES to straight COUPLES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher
How can gay couples provide a child with both a mummy and a daddy?
Amazing how quickly you change the subject.
Can you point to ANY study which shows that a man and a woman are superior to two men or two women?


Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher
Infact, you and those like you choose to ignore the evidence of centuries of precedence in favour of your own bigoted, prejudiced homosexual outlook.
"bigotted"? I am the one espousing EQUALITY and a HOME for orphans.
And THAT is "bigotted"?
You've got your head so far up your ass you can see your tonsils!

And for the record, the fact that straights have raised kids for centuries IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING regarding gay capability to raise kids.

That's like trying to compare apple sauce, which has been served for centuries, to orange juice which has been expressly forbidden during that time due to prejudice and bigotry.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
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