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Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman.

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Old 07-06-2007, 02:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How interesting.

So, when you question somebody's existance, it's all right.

But when somebody tells you that questioning their existence is offensive and insulting, it pisses you off.

Interesting stand.
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Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I just wish there were message boards where more moderates would gather.

Most of the gay people on this forum are fairly moderate.
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Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 07-06-2007, 02:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
I just wish there were message boards where more moderates would gather.

Most of the gay people on this forum are fairly moderate.

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It seems like everywhere I go there are a bunch of hypersensitive gay people
Well, then, think about it. It's everywhere you go? And, yet, you don't consider it might be YOU that is offensive, and not that EVERYBODY ELSE is hypersensitive?
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 07-06-2007, 02:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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"And, as for the violence, have you ever heard anyone rant & rave that they were going to kill some straight?"

I've never heard anybody rant and rave they were going to kill somebody gay. And I've lived most of my life in ultra-conservative "cowboyland" -- Montana, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming.

On the other hand, three of the most horrific murders I'm familiar with (covered both cases as a newspaper reporter) happened because the victim's were straight, and involved with people who had jealous/psycotic ex-spouses. (And ex-husband in one case, ex-wives in the other two.)
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Tristan, nobody "questions" the fact that gays exist. Clearly, you do.

And I can't speak for the others, but like me, I suspect they hope you are HAPPY existing. The happiness of others is important to me. Maybe I'm a cheese-ball.. I don't know..

What we question is this repeated party line that homosexuality is simply nothing more than a harmless variance in human sexuality.

I think the "science" of it all is far more ambigious than groups like GLAAD would like us to think.
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

Old 07-06-2007, 02:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytmouse57 View Post
Jax, despite current (pop) science parroting over and over that "there's nothing inherenlty harmful about homosexuality," I admit a high level of skepticism toward any condition that prevents a person from being sexually attracted only to a healthy specimen of the opposite sex, within an appropriate age range.
Is that skepticism justified? It is okay to have your doubts, but if those doubts are not yet backed by logic, then they should not taint your opinion of homosexuality.

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There are people who have genuine, romantic/sexual attractions primarily or only toward geriatrics or minor children... as well as a whole host of other deviations from the "norm" of being attracted to attractive people of the opposite gender.

Why does homosexuality get a "magic pass" as being "harmless," when these others do not?
I suppose that depends on the attraction. I will address the ones you brought up:

When you say geriatrics...you are talking about an attraction to older people, right? As far as I know, there is nothing harmful in that, and our laws appropriately place no restriction on relationships with the elderly.

As for attraction to minors, I suppose the attraction itself is not harmful. However, because a minor is not yet considered mentally ready to make decisions for himself, we consider sex with that minor harmful. Further, we consider the minor unable to decide to get married. Thus, sex with a minor and marriage to a minor are not legal.

As for other attractions, I suppose we'd have to talk about them on a case-by-case basis. Feel free to bring up others.

But I might be able to answer all of your questions right here: You asked why homosexuality is okay, but these other sexual attractions are not. I ask, why is heterosexuality okay, but these other sexual attractions are not? If you can answer that question, then you probably have the answer you're looking for.

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I'm not trying to be hostile, please don't take it that way. I'm merely pointing out that there's reason to think there's a sort of cultural myth being built up around homosexuality.
I do not know what myth you are talking about here. Can I have more explanation?

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And while we all (at least should) agree that violence and true bigorty against gay people are vile, we should not on the other hand create an environment where nobody is allowed to ask these questions -- or is merely shouted down as a "homophobe" if they do.
I don't mind people asking these sorts of questions. I do mind people denying marriage to gay couples and denying them the freedom to serve openly in the military. One is an attempt to gain understanding; the other does nothing but hurt people unnecessarily.

Ask any questions you like, but vote for equality.

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To read some of GLAAD's propoganda, you'd think gays will be killed en masse if a single preacher dares to say, "Homosexuality is sinful" from his pulpit.

You would think there's not a gay person alive you can't hardly walk down the street without being beaten up by religious homophobes.

Okay, maybe I'M exageratting to make a point.
You should not be harrassed for speaking your mind, and neither should a gay person be harrassed for being gay. GLAAD is trying to stop the latter. If GLAAD starts campaigning for laws which discriminate against religious people, or if they start campaigning for laws which give gay people preference, then I will stand against them. But so far, I see no problem with them.

There is today an atmosphere of disapproval of homosexuals. It's the reason that I haven't told my family that I'm bisexual and the reason I speak carefully around most people. GLAAD is working to make people more accepting of homosexuals, not by forcing them, but by convincing them. And I think that's a noble cause.

GLAAD may exaggerate things, but if so, I don't remember seeing very much of it. Typically I agree with GLAAD, when I read their statements, though I haven't read everything they've said.

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But honestly when I debate, say, a gay man who lives a relatively peaceful, trouble-free life of what I would consider to be relative wealth with his partner and adopted children (and I have debated online with more than one such individual) and he prattles on about being a "victim" -- while I and many I know struggle to live paycheck-to-paycheck without health insurance and many other things he might take for granted.. it's difficult for me to sympathize.
I know gay couples who can't get health insurance for their children because they can't get married. I also know several gay people who decided not to enroll in the military because they were afraid people would realize they're gay. These things are not acceptable.

But even the couple you described is a victim. You may have trouble feeling sympathy for them, but you should have even more trouble feeling sympathetic if it were a straight couple in the same situation. The fact is: this couple does not have the same rights that a straight couple would.

Maybe this couple has a good life. But that doesn't justify us in taking potshots at their life. We can't just say, "Let's make things just a little worse for gay people. They've got it pretty good anyhow." I mean, that's obviously an untrue generalization in the first place, but it's also a totally evil thing to do. Why would we do it?
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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(covered both cases.. should be covered all three cases... sorry.)
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
How interesting.

So, when you question somebody's existance, it's all right.

But when somebody tells you that questioning their existence is offensive and insulting, it pisses you off.

Interesting stand.

How is he questioning somebody's existence?

He already said that having some form of defect isn't the end of the world, and he admitted to having a kidney defect himself.

Aren't you being hypersensitive?
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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"But I might be able to answer all of your questions right here: You asked why homosexuality is okay, but these other sexual attractions are not. I ask, why is heterosexuality okay, but these other sexual attractions are not? If you can answer that question, then you probably have the answer you're looking for."

Jax, that hinges upon the patently ridicolous assumption that there isn't a blatantly obvious reason why people would be hetroxexual to begin with.
A passoinate attraction toward healthy specimens of the opposite gender serves and obvious purpose. And you have to perform utter acrobatics in denial to get past that.
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

Old 07-06-2007, 02:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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BTW, Jax, I'm all for same-sex marriages/unions and gays being able to serve in the military.
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

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