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Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman.

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Old 08-03-2007, 10:56 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
Good point. There are still plenty of racists out there. I guess, just as in the case with civil rights, the law will have to address the bigots directly for things to improve.
I see no need to try to actually change bigotted people's thinking, just their behavior. Anti-discrimination laws and hate crime laws, among others, are working to address this, with admittedly questionable success.

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Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
Honestly I really can't see how people can be against promoting love and family structure in the world. Insanity if you ask me!
My guess is it goes something like...
"Different scares me. But if different must exist, at least I can pretend to be superior. And pretending is easy if the law supports my fear."

It's not insanity, it's just fear overwhelming both compassion and common sense.
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:12 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forester814 View Post
My guess is it goes something like...
"Different scares me. But if different must exist, at least I can pretend to be superior. And pretending is easy if the law supports my fear."

It's not insanity, it's just fear overwhelming both compassion and common sense.
I'm guessing you have a little more experience with this sort of thing so I will definitely take your word for it.

But the end result is the same... being anti-love! How can people really walk around the world in 2007 and be against love? It is amazing.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 08-03-2007, 11:21 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I'm guessing you have a little more experience with this sort of thing so I will definitely take your word for it.
This sort of fear? Sadly, yes.
I've lived it myself, because of my uber-Catholic upbringing.
And I'm still related to it.

It is possible to overcome, though.
If I could do it, coming from where I came from, then anyone (who truly wants to) can do it.

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But the end result is the same... being anti-love! How can people really walk around the world in 2007 and be against love? It is amazing.
You are right.
At the most basic level, it all boils down to choosing fear over love.

If the obfuscationists with their "handicaps" and their "natural families" and their "pedophilia" would stop and be REALLY honest with themselves, they would see that you are right.

Very well said, sir.
Old 08-03-2007, 04:17 PM   #64 (permalink)
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not a sicko - merely uninformed

as we learn the things we do that are harmful to others, society changes its attitudes toward them

I think you made a good observation there.

Also, in those days, people in general didn't live as long, and infant/child mortality rates were much higher. So there was a "need" per se., to start cranking out the babies as soon as possible.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa View Post
I'm guessing you have a little more experience with this sort of thing so I will definitely take your word for it.

But the end result is the same... being anti-love! How can people really walk around the world in 2007 and be against love? It is amazing.
Well, I think "love" is used to excuse a lot of crap. As they say in the country, "putting lipstick on a pig ain't gonna make it a movie star."

Be that as it may, I can see what you're saying, in that it's sort of insane to think we should have laws saying "you (person x) can't love him/her/them." WTF, are people going to stop having feelings because the law says otherwise?

There ARE certian exceptions of course. If you've ever read NAMBLA propoganda from back in the day, they would argue fervently, passionately and sincerly that an adult man and a 12-year-old boy really could have "love" together. And you know what, they were probably right, insofar as their feelings really were genuine. (The feelings of the men, that is.)

But, I think society was correct to step in and say.."No, you should not act on those feelings. The boys you want to feel those feelings with aren't capable of giving full and actual consent."
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

Old 08-03-2007, 08:24 PM   #66 (permalink)
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There ARE certian exceptions of course. If you've ever read NAMBLA propoganda from back in the day, they would argue fervently, passionately and sincerly that an adult man and a 12-year-old boy really could have "love" together. And you know what, they were probably right, insofar as their feelings really were genuine. (The feelings of the men, that is.)

But, I think society was correct to step in and say.."No, you should not act on those feelings. The boys you want to feel those feelings with aren't capable of giving full and actual consent."
FYI, while I wholeheartedly disagree with NAMBLA and everything they stand for, this concept is hardly a new one. It was quite accepted in Ancient Greece especially for a man to have sexual relations with boys. Heterosexual sex was only for propagation.
Old 08-03-2007, 09:58 PM   #67 (permalink)
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FYI, while I wholeheartedly disagree with NAMBLA and everything they stand for, this concept is hardly a new one. It was quite accepted in Ancient Greece especially for a man to have sexual relations with boys. Heterosexual sex was only for propagation.
In fact, in ancient greece it was an important part of a boys mentorship...

it is called pederasty... Solon could tell us much more about this... he's the greek expert.
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