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Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman.

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Old 11-12-2007, 12:14 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
But if you're gay, you must be protected from all this.
When large corporations have to make a Reduction in Force they are very careful to let people go pro rata to the ethnic, gender and religious groups in the company.

Now I assume they will have to ask all employees to declare if they are homosexual for fear of accidentally letting go too many ?

How else are companies to know who is homosexual? Apparently the US Military can't figure it out.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I don't think that should be an issue. First, most of 'the public' will never know. But, more importantly, their fate is tied to the life/lives they've destroyed. They shouldn't have the right to do that because of ignorance and/or prejudice. I don't care if it IS religious in basis. All Americans should have the right to employment when doing a good - or even competent - job for their employer.

I think we're talking two different sides of the issue. You are correct... this legislation deals with FIRING.

Then again, one should always be prepared for the possiblity of being fired. I was fired from a great job I'd had for over seven years. That was over four years ago, and I STILL haven't fully recovered, financially speaking. LOTS of people have to deal with that reality in our system. You pick up and move on.

Also, I live in a "right to work" state... which basically means you can be fired for no particular reason at all, regardless of who you are.
That being said, I think if you get fired "just because you're one of them thar queers" well then, you should have legal recourse.
But, like the rest of us, you're still gonna have to get your ass out there and find another job sooner or later.

FX and I were talking more the HIRING side of the issue. I don't think there's many circumstances under which it would boil down to either getting that job from Gay Bob and Gene, or Earl the Neo-Nazi, and starving.

The fact of the matter is, I do think privately held businesses should be allowed to hire, or not hire, whoever they damn well please... and the market will weed them out. I mean, think about it... what gay man is going to apply at Earl's business.... or what conservative born-again is going to apply at Bob and Gene's business... to begin with anyway?
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

Old 11-12-2007, 03:37 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
When large corporations have to make a Reduction in Force they are very careful to let people go pro rata to the ethnic, gender and religious groups in the company.

Now I assume they will have to ask all employees to declare if they are homosexual for fear of accidentally letting go too many ?

How else are companies to know who is homosexual? Apparently the US Military can't figure it out.

I have a friend who over the years has been let go from and called back to the Boeing Aircraft Company several times. And he's a straight white guy.
He just now, finally, has enough seniority to be fully secure and not have to worry about his company's whacko binge-and-purge hiring practices.

As an engineer, he's dealt with that many times in the 20 years or so he's been out of college. Companies downsize or upsize with no warning.. or just plain go belly up.

It's a reality many people deal with in this country. I've gone from wearing a tie and making pretty good money to weeding a vinyard on my hands and knees in the dirt for minimum wage in only a few months' time because of life's unpredicatable circumstances. And, I've cycled back into a pretty damn nice job.

The point is, never count on anything and stay sharp. I get tired of hearing people bitch and moan about job circumstances... things are tough all over.
If at first you don’t succeed – try, try again and then quit. There’s no sense in making a damned fool of yourself. – W.C. Fields

Old 11-12-2007, 03:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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there is a difference between a business firing (or laying off) for business/financial reasons - and because they have found out the employee is gay
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Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 11-12-2007, 04:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
there is a difference between a business firing (or laying off) for business/financial reasons - and because they have found out the employee is gay
To the person who just lost their job, their self-respect and their livelihood - there isn't much difference.
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Employment Non-Discrimination Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The bill exempts small businesses, religious organizations and the military. Religious businesses (such as Christian book stores) are not exempted."
Never mind. Since most larger corporations already have protections built in, I doubt this bill will make much difference. Good luck.
Yup. It's not everything we wanted, but it's something.

Progress is slow and incremental. But this is progress, so I'll take it.
Old 11-12-2007, 07:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
This post began with hatred already. The initial post states, The bigot spin.
Not at all. I don't hate bigots.
People are free to be bigots if they choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
Immediately dismissing the argument of the free exercise of religion coupled with the right of free association guaranteed within the 1st Amendment. Whether you like it or not it is a legitimate argument.
I disagree. Nothing here impinges on either of these rights. What religious people choose to believe, and who they choose to associate with, is still intact under ENDA.

If people could just act professional in the workplace, and save their intolerance for after hours, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
In order to be a civil right, there must first be an immutable characteristic, then there must be a showing of being economically disadvantaged, politically powerless and have shown a history of discrimination. Unfortunately homosexuals, bisexuals and even transgenders fail to qualify in any one of those categories.
By what crazy standard? We clearly qualify under all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
Despite all the arguments to the contrary, no scientific study has ever shown that homosexuality, bisexuality or transgenderism has a genetic inheritance,
A number of studies have found links. Insisting on waiting until ALL the science is in is just a stall tactic, like the one the cigarette companies used in saying their products are perfectly safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
However, when government tries to force private business to hire those that for personal, religious, or a variety of other reasons, then we have lost a very big part of our liberty.
Yes, the freedom to destroy a person's livelihood because you find them icky is quite a blow, I am sure.
Old 11-12-2007, 07:23 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
Hey Cyn, I'd hire you anyday over some beautiful, but stuck-up, heterosexual bitch. (not saying that YOU aren't beautiful)
Hee hee. I will choose to take that as a compliment.
Stay safe over there.
Old 11-12-2007, 07:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
All diversity training does for most people is make them even more resentful of people they have a moral disagreement with. You can't force people to embrace other people they are uncomforable with. The only thing businesses can reasonably expect to accomplish is for employees to work together without harassment.
I'll tell you a secret. That's all employers are hoping to GET out of diversity training.

They know, same as you and I know, that it's not reasonable (or in many cases even possible) to undo a lifetime of intolerance with two hours of powerpoint slides.

They are just covering their own butts in case of a lawsuit.
Old 11-12-2007, 07:30 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytmouse57 View Post
I think employers should stay the hell out of employees' private lives unless and until it affects their work performance.

(Which, btw, is also why I'm against random drug testing -- except for people like pilots or those operating heavy equipment, of course.)
We agree yet again, Mr. Mouse.

The only things an employer should be concerned about regarding an employee are things that directly impact the employee's ability to fulfill the requirements of the position.

Who I sleep with and what I smoke on the weekend are not relevant.
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