It's common knowledge that women (and men) get into recurrent abusive and dangerous relationships because of personal issues that they need to work out. Abusive men somehow are able to pick out women that they know they can abuse. The failure of those marriages was caused by both people in them. But many women that repeatedly choose abusive men have their own issues as well.
WHY Some WOMEN Choose THE WRONG MAN Time and Time and Time Again Ebony - Find Articles

"And it usually is rooted in lack of self-esteem and self-love. In addition, far too many women blindly get involved with man after man without stopping to assess what went wrong in previous relationships."


So we are talking 10 divorces a marriages and a "relationship? Is the count THAT far off?

I don't disagree with that some women who find themselves abused in a relationship, had issues prior to it...

Heck, I was sexually, physically, and mentally abused starting at age 4 myself...So no wonder I went into two bad marriages that pretty much mimiced my childhood experiences...Still, where does that say I 'failed'? The failure would have been staying in such bad relationships, not getting out of them.


The problem with your whole assumption, as well as with the other ladies in question, is you are looking at numbers, not at the situations they were in. Your attaching your personal preference onto their relationships, judging it by what you've experienced in your own...

And obviously, there's totally different situations there, right? Your marriage may be successful right now. But if you were to find yourself in the situations that we were in, your experience would be totally different...Right? Which means you would have to make the same decisions we had to...Stay or leave an abusive/bad relationship.

Or are you the type of person that believes that another should remain in a relationship where they or their children are being exploited and abused?

The simple fact is you're trying to judge what our actions today are, based from afar, rather then from being in our shoes. And that shows just how uninformed/unknowledgable you are, rather then what you're trying to appear instead...

Sounds to me that Flower is in a good, lasting relationship right now. And OD seems to be doing well too...And I'm going into year 8 of being with the same man in a stable and loving relationship...So obviously the 3 of us seem to have learned from those earlier relationships to find relationships that actually do work, as well as keep ourselves out of relationships that won't work.

So get off your high horse, and until you actually walk a mile in one of our shoes, you have nothing to base your observation about any of us off of in the first place FX.

It seems you forget you are on a debate forum....You just pointed out that my observations were correct. You DID have issues that needed addressing before you got married. I'd be willing to place a bit of money on you having other abusive relationships other than the abusive marriages. I seem to remember something about you being a stripper as well. Typical... But Ali, this is a gay marriage thread, not a dissect Ali's life thread. So we really won't go there. I really DO like you so I'm not gonna go all "FX" on you here.

Until you can come up with something that proves an observation wrong, you might want to STFU though. Because honestly, your story comes out of the textbook. All you did in all that typing above is reinforce what I and my link already said.
"the problem may stem from the woman's family history"
Sounds like you and what Flower admitted to. I''m not speaking for OD. But I have my suspicions...

What does my being an exotic dancer have to do with anything? Especially since you don't know WHEN I was one? Or the circumstances of why I became one?

Believe it or not, but when I was an exotic dancer, I was no longer in any abusive relationships. And I also had the title of 'ice queen' too, because I kept my distance from males period. And I didn't get into a relationship until I left that industry...And yes, it was short and over quickly, cause of issues he had. I stayed in the relationship just long enough to help the DEA and ATF bust him, his dealer, and his clients...I was an informant and working to gather information on the man and those he was involved in...And yes...at the end he was violent towards me...But it was a risk that we knew could happen because of the situation in the first place.

I still have a contract on me for doing so. But in my mind, it's worth it cause it helped society get rid of another drug dealer.

I was actually celebant for nearly 15 years after that. I didn't get involved with anyone until I met my husband.

See what I mean? There you are, judging me by what you THINK may apply to me. You think I was an exotic dancer, because of the abuse I'd suffered as a child or in my 2 marriages...You also seem to think that because of that, I was in multiple relationships outside of marriage in between...Both being untrue observations period on your part.

Did you write this?
The real truth behind exotic dancing - Lifestyles - Helium - by Samantha V.

I'm still waiting for you to show my observations untrue. But your life story is quite interesting.

Your thinking your abusive relationships and stripping NOT being a part of your abusive childhood is typical of someone in that situation. Did you even read the article?

Nope, not me. I've only got one ID, and it's the one I use here.

I've shown you that your observations about ME are wrong. You think that I've been in multiple abusive relationships outside of my 2 early marriages...

You think that my being an exotic dancer had to do with those abuses and childhood abuses...And I'm telling you it didn't, cause there was another reason behind me becoming one. Which I explained the situation to you, but guess you missed the sublet hints I was giving you about 'the situation'...

In otherwords...The job as exotic dancer was to build a cover darling...It was part of the job discription to get the bad guys...To get in the door so to speak. The guy in question had an attraction for dancers, but not girls that were 'easy'...And we made sure I fit his qualifications to a 'T'.

The only thing that had a thing to do with prior abuse, was my first two marriages...Everything after that was your assumption and incorrect assumptions at that.

And those observations are wrong in those instances...Just as you assume you know why OD or Flower were in bad marriages/relationships cause you don't know why they were in bad relationships in the first place...

Maybe they were abused...But then again, maybe they weren't, prior to entering those bad relationships.

Just because a shoe fits some people, doesn't mean it fits all the people.

FX, you really need to learn how to break up your responses better...Rather then respond within a quote itself, where your response doesn't show up when one clicks on the 'quote' button...

So now, I have to bounce back and forth between two pages, to respond to you properly...

That's exactly what I'm saying...The only abusive relationships outside of my childhood I've been in, were those two marriages. Simply because I didn't allow myself to get involved personally with anyone else because of those experiences.

I can't count the one with the drug dealer, because the possibility of it becoming/ending in abuse was a calculated risk of getting to his boss so the drug chain could be busted and incarcarated. In otherwords, just like police might be shot on the job...We knew there was a chance that I'd get slapped or worse doing my job in regards to him.

Actually, no it didn't make it easier. In fact it made it that much harder cause sexually I was 'frigid'. I actually had to overcome becoming physically ill at the thought, let alone actually doing it.

Back then, nudity represented vunerability to me. And it's probally one of the reasons why I became such a popular show at the club I was in...Cause I wore several layers of clothing, and the audience only got a quick peek at nudity on my own part only in the last few seconds of the performance.

Versus the other girls who were bare by the first few notes in the first song of a 3-song set...

My stage performances were actually compared to the old world 'strip tease acts'...Cause more was in the imagination of the viewer, then actually seeing any nudity of me. You know...the flash of shoulder, side of the breast, etc.?

I'm actually one of the few left that knows feather dancing.

So no darling...My childhood and 2 marriages didn't help me be able to work as an exotic dancer. In fact, it hindered it in a way, because of my phobia about nudity and men in general.

But then again, the target found that my 'shyness/fridgidness' was very appealing, which in the end made me kind of a novelty to get to know.

Here ya go.


That's exactly what I'm saying...The only abusive relationships outside of my childhood I've been in, were those two marriages. Simply because I didn't allow myself to get involved personally with anyone else because of those experiences.

"Drama" doesn't necessarily mean a romantic relationship. And if the ONLY relationships you had were abusive, until your current one, separated by a span of 15 years....Damn...My wife was lucky picking me off AOL as her very first relationship at 16.

I can't count the one with the drug dealer, because the possibility of it becoming/ending in abuse was a calculated risk of getting to his boss so the drug chain could be busted and incarcarated. In otherwords, just like police might be shot on the job...We knew there was a chance that I'd get slapped or worse doing my job in regards to him.

That's not proving your point.

Actually, no it didn't make it easier. In fact it made it that much harder cause sexually I was 'frigid'. I actually had to overcome becoming physically ill at the thought, let alone actually doing it.
Back then, nudity represented vunerability to me. And it's probally one of the reasons why I became such a popular show at the club I was in...Cause I wore several layers of clothing, and the audience only got a quick peek at nudity on my own part only in the last few seconds of the performance.

Of it could have been because you were hot. You are a tiny little thing right. That's hot. Are you listening Forest?

Versus the other girls who were bare by the first few notes in the first song of a 3-song set...

I bet those are interesting stories to themselves.

My stage performances were actually compared to the old world 'strip tease acts'...Cause more was in the imagination of the viewer, then actually seeing any nudity of me. You know...the flash of shoulder, side of the breast, etc.?
I'm actually one of the few left that knows feather dancing.

Or...ahem...Sally Rand balloon dancing. I'm a looner ya know.

So no darling...My childhood and 2 marriages didn't help me be able to work as an exotic dancer. In fact, it hindered it in a way, because of my phobia about nudity and men in general.

If that gets you through the night. You are welcome to anything you like. If you can get a professional opinion on those issues, he'll probably say your childhood set up everything that happened afterwards.

But then again, the target found that my 'shyness/fridgidness' was very appealing, which in the end made me kind of a novelty to get to know.

That's my opinion of OD. Even at her ahem...age(that's just an FX call to OD)...I still expect to see a "My little Pony" and flowers on the wall of her room. OK not really. But you get my point. I think she'd be a hoot the hang around.

Yes, I'm listening. And I knew Ali was hot before hearing any of this stuff about exotic dancing.

I have yet to see a picture of her, but I know her heart... she's hot.