what's that?

a circular argument?

not from garysher - tell me it ain't so!

yeah

that's what it is alright

I just presented it for perusal. I though it was quite an interesting read. I didn't say it related to anything. So your little blurb about it validating something was worthless.

Maybe you ought to present a valid hypothesis...period..

How are pedo and homosexuality biologically different without using "legal" constructs? If homosexuality is just a human variation, I don't see how pedo can not be one as well. It's quite a compelling urge. It's been accused of making men create entire societies like the FLDS to support it. It happens in nature. It has a LONG and stories human history. It seems quite pervasive among humans. I fail to see the biological difference between the two aberrant sexual orientations.

What turns you on is what turns you on. I don't get how anyone gets their sexual kicks, as long as there isn't any crime committed. There is not biological difference in arousal. Arousal is arousal.

I think I specifically said leave legal out of it. "Legal" has nothing to do with the post you quoted.

I agree with what you said though. People are welcome to do whatever they choose in their bedrooms. But don't expect everyone to agree with it and want societal norms to be based on all kinds of weird unnatural crap.

Everyone has their own ideas about social norms. And what is normal to some is not to others. The difference always comes down to what is legal. People are free to do whatever makes them happy as long as they aren't infringing on the rights of another. Just because sombody doesn't like it, doesn't mean it should be banned for everyone. Unless it is criminal behavior.

That sounds like a circular argument right there.

Society determines what is criminal behavior though. And the arbitrary nature of law shows it's not based on anything but what "society" wants. If someone doesn't like it, it CAN be deemed to be criminal behavior, which is banned for everyone. Even though it doesn't hurt everyone who does it.

It's not illegal to be gay now, but it used to be because of society. I agree with that. People should be free to do whatever "in their bedrooms".

But same sex unions don't meet the conditions for marriage like other human unions that are banned. Just like polygamy, which is also banned, even though many people do it all the time with multiple sex partners.

fxashun;

by using other constructs, such as psychological and evolutionary constructs, or the effect it has on society and other individuals within it. but wait, these are just theories arent they, so they dont count !!

biological differences were the major argument for the inferiority of blacks for centuries. and there ARE biological differences between blacks and whites. but this does not mean one is normal and one is degenerate. the concept of variety being the norm rather than a specific ideal individual being the norm appears to be beyond your grasp.

because the evidence shows that the underlying drives and psychology is different, that the impact on society and individuals is vastly different, that the genetics and evolutionary support for one does not follow to the other.

urges can be compelled by very different things

societies have been created for many reasons, natural or unnatural.

nature is very variable. different animals have evolved in different ways. among some animals, sex with their offspring is quite normal and quite healthy. among others it is not. some species are able to reproduce with themselves. the argument regarding nature is not that "it happens in nature therefore it must be the right thing to do". if this were the argument, we would be able to say humans should be eating their own children, having dozens of kids in each litter and never seeing one child again once the next child comes along. the argument is sex in nature is not as simple as something we do to make babies. particularly among social species, evolution uses sex for multiple reasons. we are a naturally evolved species, and this applies to us too. get your mind around this idea.

not quite sure what you mean here. sordid, perhaps?

there are lots of biological and social phenomena that are pervasive among humans. some are natural, some are abnormalities, some are biologically determined variations, some are social constructions.

you seem to be saying that if it is widespread but uncommon it is abnormal and dysfunctional every time. life is more complicated than that. how many times do i have to tell you this??

you fail to see lots of things. they have been illuminated for your benefit, but your failure seems to be something you are actively fostering.