a better look at evidence - Page 15

Tigerwiccan · 05-29-2008, 09:22 AM

"claiming that if we do not readily see "distress, disability and disadvantage" in a particular psychological condition, then the condition is not disordered."

I fail to see the problem with this approach.

pride_of_sterling_city · 05-29-2008, 09:23 AM

He describes in detail the well-known research study he conducted in 1962, involving a 500-item questionnaire and 106 male homosexuals, with a comparison group of 100 male heterosexuals.
Mother of Homosexuals

He found a close-binding, intimate mother who tended to interfere with her son's assertiveness, and who tended to dislocate his relationship with the father, siblings, and peers. However, Dr. Bieber found that homosexuality can develop without the frequently occurring close-binding-intimate, mother-son bond.
Fathers

But the most significant finding was that of the detached father. "The father-son relationship was almost the diametrical opposite of that between mother and son. The paternal portrait was one of a father who was either detached or covertly or overtly hostile," he reported. While there was some variance in the mother-son relationship, Dr. Bieber reported,

"The father-son relationship, however, revealed uniformly an absence of loving, warm, constructive paternal attitudes and behavior. In my long experience, I have not found a single case where, in the developing years, a father had a kind, affectionate, and constructive relationship with the son who becomes homosexual. This has been an unvarying finding. It is my view, and I have so stated and written, that if a father has a kind, affectionate, and constructive relationship with his son, he will not produce a homosexual son, no matter what the mother is like."
Dr. Bieber's study in fact found a continuity of poor relationships with males, beginning with the father, older brothers, and same-sex peers in childhood. He concludes,
"The consistent history of unremitting fear of and hostility to other males throughout childhood has led me to conclude that male homosexuality is basically an adaptation to a disorder of a man's relationship with other men."
Of the 106 homosexuals who started psychoanalytic therapy, 29 changed to exclusively heterosexuality, which represented 27 percent of the total sample.
Dr. Bieber discussed the issue of the definition of normality. Because homosexual fantasies and behavior are fear-based, he concluded, we cannot call them normal.
The New Diagnostic Criteria

The A.P.A. at that time had adopted a new set of criteria for defining psychological disorder. To be disordered, a condition must:

regularly cause distress, or

interfere with social effectiveness.

The Psychiatric Association pointed to the excellent occupational performance and good social adjustment of many homosexuals as evidence of the normalcy of homosexuality. But such factors do not, Dr. Bieber countered, exclude the presence of psychopathology. Psychopathology is not always accompanied by adjustment problems; therefore, the criteria are in reality, inadequate to identify a psychological disorder.

Dr. Bieber stated that psychopathology can be ego-syntonic and not cause distress; that social effectiveness--that is, the ability to maintain positive social relations and perform work effectively--may in fact coexist with psychopathology.

A task force was set up to study homosexuality, but the members chosen included not a single psychiatrist who held the view that homosexuality was not a normal adaptation. There followed riots at scientific meetings by gay activists who increased the pressure on the Psychiatric Association.

Will preventive therapy for homosexuality be prohibited, Dr. Bieber wondered, when homosexuality is normalized?

Furthermmore--is it the proper domain of psychiatry to remove diagnoses to eliminate prejudice?

Dr. Bieber pointed out that there were several other conditions in the DSM-II that did not fulfill the "distress and social disability" criteria: voyeurism, fetishism, sexual sadism, and masochism. A.P.A.'s Dr. Spitzer replied that these conditions should perhaps also be removed from the DSM-II -- and that if the sadists and fetishists were to organize as did the gay activists, they, too, might find their conditions normalized.
Summary

The factors that determined the decision of the APA to delete homosexuality from DSM-II were summarized as follows:

Gay activists had a profound influence on psychiatric thinking.

A sincere belief was held by liberal-minded and compassionate psychiatrists that listing homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder supported and reinforced prejudice against homosexuals. Removal of the term from the diagnostic manual was viewed as a humane, progressive act.

There was an acceptance of new criteria to define psychiatric conditions. Only those disorders that caused a patient to suffer or that resulted in adjustment problems were thought to be appropriate for inclusion in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

pride_of_sterling_city · 05-29-2008, 09:28 AM

BELTWAY SNIPERS

John Alien Muham-
mad and John Lee
Malvo were lovers —
and their gay secret fueled the
terrifying rage that left 10 vic-
tims dead, The ENQUIRER
has learned exclusively.
What's more, we've uncov-
ered shocking links between
the gunmen and Al Qaeda —
and discovered the secret
money pipeline that allowed
Muhammad to fly to Canada,
the Caribbean and around
the country meeting with
fellow Islamic fanatics.
Shockingly, 17-year-oldMalvo
himself nearly became a vic-
tim of Muhammad as their
bizarre relationship turned
abusive and the frightened
teenager wrote to a young ac-
quaintance, "I'm afraid that
John is going to kill me."

The ENQUIRER'S also
learned the two bloodthirsty
maniacs may have signed
their own death warrants by
leaving behind a laptop com-
puter and possibly other
writings that spell out their
activities in shocking detail
l "They told people they
were father and son, but in-
vestigators have found out
the two men were really
lovers," declared an insider
familiar with the case.
Muhammad became close
to Malvo when he visited

Antigua two years ago — and
they quickly formed a close
bond that outraged Malvo's
mother Una.
"She said Muhammad was
brainwashing the boy into
being his slave and she
thought there was a sexual
relationship between her son
and Muhammad," divulged a
family friend. She turned out
to be correct.
Muhammad fled with the
boy to Bellingham, Wash.,
where they moved into the
Lighthouse Mission for the
homeless. The older man
stunned others in the mission
by acting wildly possessive of
he teenager.
A pal, who exercised with
the pair at a local YMCA,
said it was "a gay relation-
ship."
And he made this shocking
disclosure: "Muhammad put
his arms around Malvo and
seen kissing him
on several occasions.

"There were quite a few
gay guys at the YMCA and if
any of them looked at Malvo,
Muhammad would get furi-
ous. He often felt the young
man's muscles after a work-
out and said Malvo was his
pride and joy.
"He told the young man,
Allah is going to be proud of
you. You must be strong to do
his work

pride_of_sterling_city · 05-29-2008, 09:32 AM

The coverage of the Virgina Tech massacre is sensational and speculative enough with all the media pop psychology about what drove the killer to do it. However, there are also professionals who provide sound theories for the shooting. Dr. Helen Morrison, a forensic psychiatrist who has been making the rounds of all the shows, tell Anderson Cooper on CNN that she believes Cho Seung-Hui was fighting against his homosexual attraction -- and thus challenges to his manhood -- and was out to prove it wasn't true by going out and blowing away 32 people.

pride_of_sterling_city · 05-29-2008, 09:43 AM

From a pro gay website:

Gay Couple Murdered in Kentucky

An investigation is underway in Kentucky after Jennifer Lynn Smith confessed to the killings of an gay couple who were murdered separately in their homes last week in Louisville, Kentucky. She told officials that she and her partner, Dale Moneypenny, stabbed Charles Poynter, 43, to death in his home and then she set the home ablaze with a lighter.

The couple then apparently drove to the home of Poynter's partner, Blaine Thacker jr., 73, and murdered and robbed him. Smith said they told Thacker they needed a place to stay.

Moneypenny is still on the loose and police have not released any details of a motive in the case, but did say that the two couples were acquaintances. Moneypenny apparently has an extensive rap sheet that includes, burglary, assault, and auto theft. (Video)
New Details Emerge in Double Homicide [whas]
Murder Victim Found in burning Apartment [wave]
Sphere: Related Content

Posted 10:27 AM EST by <A href="http://towleroad.typepad.com/contribs.html">Andy in Current Affairs | Permalink

Comments

First, the whining post by a gay militant:

Posted by: Mike | Mar 28, 2006 12:22:17 PM

Its not on the news Mike, cause didn't you get the memo, they don't want people to hear bout all that "gay" nonsense.... This is just sick and sad. Why can't people just get over themselves... My husband and I have friends who have had trash thrown at them, been pushed down, been called the vialist of names, all because they are gay... Its a sad sad world and it has to STOP...

Now a statement of the gay political agenda:

Posted by: rick | Mar 29, 2006 8:48:44 PM
In red states, pockets of tolerance does not define acceptance. Louisville is such a pocket, but as you can see, hate speech often translates into hate behaviours.

Now the real story comes out, first, these two men weren't a gay couple as reported:

Posted by: Raymond | Mar 30, 2006 5:22:33 AM

I knew Eddie,the younger victim, pretty well, and had met Blaine a few times also. Unfortunately Eddie had a bad drug/alcohol habit, and I think that's how he was acquainted with the murderers. Actually, Eddie and Blaine were just friends(very old ones). They were never lovers, just good friends, though they were both gay. Just to clarify that little bit...

Then someone points out these two criminals were crackheads, not gay bashers:

dale moneypenny is not the guy you think he is he did not target gays i know this because he was my friend for 4 years and he had never done anything like this he was strung out on crack my mom is gay and shows it and he had no problem with that he was looking for a way out you all are just looking for a reson to say no one like gays

Posted by: charles | Aug 19, 2006 10:42:00 PM

Dale is not gay believe me he is my exboyfriendand we went off and on for a coupld of years untill this happened he was a very good persona dn had a big heart i loved him with all i had and made sure he stayed out of trouble and he does not look like a drag queen least i can say i was with a pretty man and your just jealous you could never look like that if it did happen like that they were all probably on crack and we all now how ppl get if their on it and there isnt no more or if someone wont share

Posted by: shelley | Oct 21, 2007 2:10:39 PM

fxashun · 05-29-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

"claiming that if we do not readily see "distress, disability and disadvantage" in a particular psychological condition, then the condition is not disordered."

I fail to see the problem with this approach.

That approach also means pedo and zoofie are "normal" unless it causes distress to the person so afflicted. Under that standard you will end up having to create new words like zoophilophobia and pedophobia like they had to do when they implicated the regular public with homophobia.

Pedophilia being still labelled a disorder is more a political move based on this statement..
Medem: Medical Library: Diagnostic Criteria for Pedophilia
An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a criminal and immoral act and this is never considered normal or socially acceptable behavior. Darrel A. Regier, M.D.,M.P.H., Director, American Psychiatric Association’s Division of Research states, “there are no plans or processes set up that would lead to the removal of the Paraphilias from their consideration as legitimate mental disorders.”
And there are those that disagree on pretty solid grounds...
Is Pedophilia a Mental Disorder?
Sexual arousal patterns to children are subjectively reported and physiologically demonstrable in a substantial minority of “normal” people. Historically, they have been common and accepted in varying cultures at varying times. This does not mean that they must be accepted culturally and legally today. The question is: Do they constitute a mental illness? Not unless we declare a lot of people in many cultures and in much of the past to be mentally ill. And certainly not by the criteria of DSM.

Seems the hypocrisy of the APA "professionals" shines through again.

Tigerwiccan · 05-29-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

That approach also means pedo and zoofie are "normal" unless it causes distress to the person so afflicted. Under that standard you will end up having to create new words like zoophilophobia and pedophobia like they had to do when they implicated the regular public with homophobia.

Pedophilia being still labelled a disorder is more a political move based on this statement..
Medem: Medical Library: Diagnostic Criteria for Pedophilia
An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a criminal and immoral act and this is never considered normal or socially acceptable behavior. Darrel A. Regier, M.D.,M.P.H., Director, American Psychiatric Association’s Division of Research states, “there are no plans or processes set up that would lead to the removal of the Paraphilias from their consideration as legitimate mental disorders.”
And there are those that disagree on pretty solid grounds...
Is Pedophilia a Mental Disorder?
Sexual arousal patterns to children are subjectively reported and physiologically demonstrable in a substantial minority of “normal” people. Historically, they have been common and accepted in varying cultures at varying times. This does not mean that they must be accepted culturally and legally today. The question is: Do they constitute a mental illness? Not unless we declare a lot of people in many cultures and in much of the past to be mentally ill. And certainly not by the criteria of DSM.

Seems the hypocrisy of the APA "professionals" shines through again.

I actually agree with everything you quoted and fail to see any hypocrisy.

fxashun · 05-29-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerwiccan

I actually agree with everything you quoted and fail to see any hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy is that pedo is still listed as a mental disorder, while homosexuality isn't. I don't see why you can't understand that from what I posted. Especially when you take into full context with the post that I quoted. They both pretty much conform to that standard. Not to mention zoophie. But there are those that support removing that from "the list" as well.

Tigerwiccan · 05-29-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

The hypocrisy is that pedo is still listed as a mental disorder, while homosexuality isn't. I don't see why you can't understand that from what I posted. Especially when you take into full context with the post that I quoted.

Wanting to have sex with prepubescent children IS a disorder, since someone who has not gone though puberty cannot know sexuality in the way that an adult does. Any older than puberty, and we get into the social taboo area, but historically it's been ok in the past, but it's looked at as wrong now.

As far as homosexuality is concerned, there is nothing intrinsicly disfunctional about it to make it a disorder.

tristanrobin · 05-29-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pride_of_sterling_city

Dr. Bieber pointed out that there were several other conditions in the DSM-II that did not fulfill the "distress and social disability" criteria: voyeurism, fetishism, sexual sadism, and masochism. A.P.A.'s Dr. Spitzer replied that these conditions should perhaps also be removed from the DSM-II -- and that if the sadists and fetishists were to organize as did the gay activists, they, too, might find their conditions normalize

are people who are voyeurs, sadists, masochists, fetishists, etc. not allowed to get married to similar philias?

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