What's the matter? Can't you control yourself?

You all can preach that reparative therapy doesn't work all you want to, but the facts don't line up with your propaganda. There are a lot of former homos walking around today living as heteros because of reparative therapy. FACT.

No, there's not.

But there IS a "LYING SICK BASTARD THAT ENDANGERS THE LIVES OF INNOCENT PEOPLE" feature.

Of course, I'm sure you already knew that, Mister Christian.

actually, the FACTS completely support my statements.

I can 'walk around living as' Prince Phillip - it doesn't mean I'll inherit the thrown of England.

I don't believe ANYBODY here EVER said that people couldn't be brainwashed and hypnotized into behaving a certain way. Doesn't mean they're anything different than what they are.

It happens, but remember some people aren't just gay, they're bi, or they've only been going through a phase of gender confusion.

You're also forgetting that several reliable medical journals and associations have disavowed reparative therapy including the American Psychological Association and American Medical Association. Most of the proponents of the "cure" are biased religious authorities.

There is one notable exception to this, Robert Spitzer, whose study revealing a relatively high success rate (66% of men and 44% of women). The study was called into question because of non-random sampling and no follow up study. Most notably, though, was the loose defenition of "heterosexual."

According to Spitzer's study, a heterosexual is anyone who is either celibate or restricting their sexual activity to the opposite sex. This means that the study doesn't take into account homosexual feelings, or bisexuals.

This is the icing on the cake, direct quotes from Spitzer himself on finding people for the study.

"Some people can and do change. Like most psychiatrists, I thought that homosexual behavior could only be resisted, and that no one could really change their sexual orientation. I now believe this to be false."

This is some additional information I found.
That 86% of the men and 63% of the female subjects emerged from therapy still having feelings of attraction to persons of the same-sex. That is, after therapy they are bisexuals, not heterosexuals.

That sixteen (11%) of the men and 21 (37%) of the women report that they now have a heterosexual orientation. It is not known how many of these had entered therapy as bisexuals and how many had been homosexuals.

That 66% of the males and 44% of the females had arrived at "good heterosexual functioning." According to Cnn.com, that term is defined as having been "in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex."

"Of the 112 men (out of the total 143) who acknowledged that they masturbated, more than half (56 percent) said they used homosexual fantasies some of the time and about one-third (31 percent) said they seldom had opposite-sex masturbation fantasies."

It's also interesting to note tht Spitzer took all of his subjects from ex-gay advocates who had a high chance of bias. Even worse for the study, Spitzer reported that even though religious authorities said there were thousands of ex-gays, spitzer could only find 274 after a year and a half.

Analysis of Dr. Spitzer's study of reparative therapy

"Fact"?
All you do is quote ISOLATED TESTIMONIALS, but when people actually DO RESEARCH on these issues, the "facts" don't line up with the research.

It is a FACT that the vast majority of reparative therapy attempts FAIL.
It is a FACT that even amongst those that claim they have successfully changed, they ARE STILL GAY when they admit they STILL MASTURBATE to gay fantasies.

THESE are the facts.
Substantiated by research.


If you ask a cold medicine company how well it fights colds, of COURSE they are going to tell you they have satisfied customers. OF COURSE they will be happy to show you a story of somebody who was helped by their product.
But if you REALLY want to know how well a product works, you listen to INDEPENDENT PEOPLE who have reviewed the product.


And for reparative therapy, it's a pathetic score card.
If "reparative therapy" were a drug, it would be unapproved by the FDA.
"Reparative therapy" is often enacted by people who have NO CLUE what they are doing. No degrees in psychology or sociology.

Reparative therapy is the snake-oil for the anti-gay crowd.

IMPORTANT QUOTE FROM DR. SPITZER

He told the Washington Post in 2005 that supporters of reparative therapy have misrepresented the results of his study. He said:
"It bothers me to be their knight in shining armor because on every social issue I totally disagree with the Christian right...What they don't mention is that change is pretty rare."

He noting that the subjects of his study were not representative of the general population because they were considerably more religious. He calls as "totally absurd" the beliefs that everyone is born straight and that homosexuality is a choice.

Meaning that he changed his opinion based on his own research. Might be a good role model for you, Alias & Jefferson.

That is your opinion that they are brainwashed and hypnotized. You have an opinion. The FACT they are living and breathing have spoken about it is the proof. All you have is sour grapes. Those are not FACTS.

There are a lot of people who have stopped drinking and doing drugs also because of therapy and then there are some who have not taken therapy or have and didn't change. That does not change the FACT that there are people who have stopped drinking and drugging. I know you don't want to accept that because it threatens you and challenges your belief system, but the FACT is they say they are happier and enjoying a much better life.

I think you can see now after a few days here that I am far from the ignorant stupid bigot you tried to label me. I am at least as intelligent and literate as you are. That is also a FACT.

It's funny how we toss facts at you left and right, and still you insist that they don't exist.
Do you think others don't notice your lie?


"sour grapes"?
The letter I quoted at the start was from one of the FOUNDERS of one of these groups, and he EXPLICITLY talked about the harm that they do to people.

This isn't "sour grapes".

What I truly find fascinating is how the "ex-gay" crowd will not admit to the HARM that they do.
Every once in a while, they'll produce somebody they want to stick up on a pedastal to trumpet his/her "change", but they are ignoring the VAST MAJORITY of people they are not helping. They ignore the people they HURT in the process.

This isn't "sour grapes".
If somebody wants to undergo "reparative therapy", that's their choice.
But if they do, they should know ALL the facts, including the slim chances that it there will be any "change", and the risks for damage to the person involved.
And for the life of me, I can't understand why any rationale person who isn't completely bigotted wouldn't want the same.